Geno Stone takes pay cut

[Bengalitis]

so....................he got financially demoted? yikes!

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 05:55 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hindsight is 20/20 but....everyone was super interested in us signing Christian Wilkins. Had we done that everyone would have proclaimed we were amazing and were all in on free agency. The dude hurt his foot early in the year missed all but 5 games and there is serious concern he may need another surgery and miss another chunk of this upcoming season. The Raiders have a TON of money now sunk in a guy who may never really deliver any value and they can't get out of that deal for at least one more year. Major foot injuries on big guys approaching 30 are usually death sentences. 

The right plan is the plan that works. The wrong plan is the one that doesn't. Very few ever go back though and talk about the consensus "right plans" that didn't work either because they are too busy harping on our plan that was wrong here. Right now, we still probably have a better chance of getting value out of the two DT's we drafted last year than the Raiders do of getting Value out of Wilkins. We will see what happens but had we taken and connected on the biggest possible swing at DT last year we still would have been screwed so I think it's kind of tough to look at it as if there was an "easy" answer.

Good post. 

I admit I wanted Wilkins. But I wanted to retain Reader more. Also was a big fan of Williams in Seattle, but he re-upped there. 

This year? I thought the FA DTs were wildly overpaid. Passing on the big tickets and bringing back BJ Hill for $9 mil and signing a tank NT was fine with me. Though I did love me some Calais Campbell. IDK at $7 mil, though.

If we'd have structured Chase/Higgins better ($11 mil in cap space), or restructured Burrow (+19 mil), then we could have spent bigger. Or waiving Moss/Stone. 

As is, we have around $15-$16 mil in real cap space for Trey's extension and a cushion for injury signings and IR. With Peatt & Volson on the roster

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 04:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I would never deny they deserve credit for "keeping their own". It's not shiney and doesn't really make a splash but lots of fans underplay it. 

I give shit where it's due and sometimes get thrown in the fire with others who maybe ***** different than me but i don't really stress cause, in the famous words of J.E. Lawrence, "it is what it is". 

Like this 

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 03:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: BJ could have been replaced via the draft and that money could have went elsewhere (Guard, LB) freeing up the draft to draft a position that was deep instead of doubling up on positions that were weak.

Tobin preached that we held on to the SB defense too long and holding on to BJ was doubling down on that mistake. They should have managed FA to leave the draft to draft the positions it was deep in. Especially with only 6 picks. 

They never get this right. Last year they doubled up on TE in a weak draft class for TE's after ignoring TE in the strongest draft class for them a year before. They ignored RB in a deep RB class last year..... while doubling up on DT's in a weak DT class last year..... Doubled up on LB's this draft in a weak LB class.... They really struggle to get this right and their draft for need philosophy everyone knows is a flawed draft approach (and why they've failed to draft for so many years).

To come out of FA and the draft with still so many holes leading up to the season can only be considered a failure. 

Yeah Bj was a shock to me although I don't think the DT class was as strong as it first appeared.  I agree this offseason has been a failure. 1 outside FA starter we signed our own guys but actively front loaded the contracts to limit ourselves and then our draft wasn't very good. I get people being optimistic but if you can look at this offseason and think the Bengals did enough then you are lying to yourself. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(Yesterday, 11:51 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was not on board with Stone.

I wasn't either, I wanted Simmons from Denver. 

[J24]

(Yesterday, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As much as the negative people hate this Offseason, it would of been much worse if we lost all those guys and they cannot argue with that.


Tee was the top FA this Offseason, BJ Hill was a top DT in FA this Offseason, Mike G could be argued was a top pass catcher etc.

Would of sucked to lose all of these guys is all I am saying. Adding Slaton helps as we needed a NT, adding Burks a solid vet was a good 
move, same with adding Perine on Offense who is proven. Patrick is proven when he is healthy to be an upgrade over Cappa.

If we can extend Trey and add a Guard and maybe even a Safety I find this to be a productive Offseason. Shemar Stewart is an immense 
talent and with the new coaches on Defense and for the OL we don't know how much this team can improve this year.

Hold on for a second; Who considered BJ  the best DT in free agency? 

[J24]

If the FO were smart they would sign another FS and move Geno to third safety. A role in which Geno thrived in in Baltimore.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Today, 12:24 AM)J24 Wrote: Hold on for a second; Who considered BJ  the best DT in free agency? 

No one. But lots of places had him top 5. 

PFF had Hill 4th at DT, Higgins #1 at WR, Gesicki #2 at TE, and Hilton #7 at CB.

FWIW, at G, Scherff #7 and Hernandez #10. 

A FA had to be top 125 to be listed. 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-2025-free-agents-every-position-free-agency

I have been as negative as anyone this offseason, particularly the draft. But I actually think we did a pretty decent job retaining talent. If Trey was done and Tee/Chase structured better, I'd have given it an A-/B+. Not thrilled about Moss/Stone decisions or Pratt $$ not getting reinvested in the squad so far. But we wllere always gonna have to live with some stuff. 

I was less impressed with the outside FA's. But grading on a curve, since we had less $$$ available due to the poor Tee/Chase structures, it was not horrible. I like Burks. I like Patrick better as a backup. Or a bridge. I liked bringing Perine back. If we have enough to sign one more guy (G, S, CB, WR, TE, DT) then I could go C+. 

Still hate the draft. But not necessarily the players. Good value on Day 3 even if it was all double/triple dipping. D+ max. But if Stewart and Fairchild hit, it will be a lot higher.  And we should give them a chance to play first. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I would never deny they deserve credit for "keeping their own". It's not shiney and doesn't really make a splash but lots of fans underplay it. 

I give shit where it's due and sometimes get thrown in the fire with others who maybe ***** different than me but i don't really stress cause, in the famous words of J.E. Lawrence, "it is what it is". 

Well said Rfaulk. I understand.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Today, 12:24 AM)J24 Wrote: Hold on for a second; Who considered BJ  the best DT in free agency? 

I said "a top DT in FA" and he was one of them and actually is more solid than your guy from the Cowboys IMO.

[J24]

(7 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I said "a top DT in FA" and he was one of them and actually is more solid than your guy from the Cowboys IMO.

1 miss read that statement my bad and 2.) BJ Hill is no way in hell better than Osa Odighizuwa. that's just Bengals bias kicking in but that is just for another thread.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(5 hours ago)J24 Wrote: 1 miss read that statement my bad and 2.) BJ Hill is no way in hell better than Osa Odighizuwa. that's just Bengals bias kicking in but that is just for another thread.

Cool, you and I believe it was Sunset were arguing about this and Odighizuwa's stats weren't any better than BJ's from what he provided.

I actually wanted Osa if BJ left though for sure as I believe he is younger and seems to make some eye popping plays, but the stats and 
production are actually on BJ's side from what I remember.

[CJD]

This is a head scratcher for me.

He takes a pay cut after we did not sign anyone to compete with him in free agency nor did we draft anyone to compete with him in the draft.

So we go to him and ask him to take a pay cut of just 1.6 million dollars (which is, generally speaking, inconsequential from a cap perspective), and if he doesn't....what? We start Daijahn Anthony? Or sign Justin Simmons/Julian Blackmon?

Why not sign some depth regardless?

This is exactly how I feel about the guard position. What is the downside to signing a veteran to create an actual competition? Make a few players that were on the worst defense we've had in a long time, or the worst guard pair we've had in a long time, truly compete to win the starting job.

So many "starter by default" players on this roster to feel comfortable going into the 2025 season.

And what can you do with 1.6M dollars in the NFL? Stone mentioned he hoped it would go to Trey but...really? 1.6M isn't going to make a difference to Trey.

If we were 1.6M off from re-signing Trey and we haven't yet, I'd be so unbelievably pissed with this FO. Disenfranchising your best defender for what amounts to pocket change in the NFL...

The Bengals just operate on a fundamentally different level than every other franchise. We currently have nearly 27M dollars in cap space.

What are we going to spend that money on?

Are we just going to roll 20 million dollars over to 2026 in a season where we should be competing to win a Super Bowl?

It's just negligent behavior.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 09:25 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good post. 

I admit I wanted Wilkins. But I wanted to retain Reader more. Also was a big fan of Williams in Seattle, but he re-upped there. 

This year? I thought the FA DTs were wildly overpaid. Passing on the big tickets and bringing back BJ Hill for $9 mil and signing a tank NT was fine with me. Though I did love me some Calais Campbell. IDK at $7 mil, though.

If we'd have structured Chase/Higgins better ($11 mil in cap space), or restructured Burrow (+19 mil), then we could have spent bigger. Or waiving Moss/Stone. 

As is, we have around $15-$16 mil in real cap space for Trey's extension and a cushion for injury signings and IR. With Peatt & Volson on the roster

I wanted Wilkins as well last Offseason, guess it would of been a big mistake looking back as Au165 says.

Just goes to show you that even some of the so called proven guys can be big risks. People on here acting like we could of drafted someone
to replace BJ Hill are also showing their ignorance to these facts. BJ Hill is as solid of a DT as we could of added in FA even if people want to act
otherwise. Kris Jenkins is our Draft pick to replace BJ Hill and I bet he grows a ton this year.