Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[GMDino]

(05-05-2024, 04:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, UVA got in on the fun of the protests this weekend. https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2024/05/police-forcefully-clear-encampment-near-university-chapel-detain-protesters

There are some interesting parts to this one. The policies regarding tents used to justify the police action in this situation had included exceptions for recreational tents. However, as of Saturday morning, they had been changed without notice. I have seen the screenshots and documents; not a good look.

Another thing that wasn't a good look was a local journalist observing the action looked over to see a VSP officer laughing at one of the protestors being injured in the fray. When he saw the journalist looking at him he commented "this is so entertaining."

My last thought on this is that the officer wasn't the only one laughing or cheering at this occurring. There were a large number of people observing the police action that were cheering at the violence of it. I find it disheartening that anyone could find joy in such violence, no matter who it is. I just don't have that in me.

They WANT to thump heads and "teach people a lesson". But we dare not say the people with power are oppressing anyone.

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2024, 04:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So, moving on from the tantrums.  Fetterman keeps putting in work, this time calling out the people funding these protests.

Confirmed: the anti-Israel astroturfing of JVP/INN

Paid or not, protesters should be demanding Hamas to release the hostages and surrender. pic.twitter.com/DZJJPnr9Kf

— Senator John Fetterman (@SenFettermanPA) May 5, 2024

Shockingly it's George Soros and Bill Gates.  Good thing Fetterman is Jewish so ha can actually call Soros out without the usual gaslighting.




Here's the article in question.


https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-university-funding-donors-00156135#:~:text=The%20donors%20include%20some%20of,Voice%20for%20Peace%20and%20IfNotNow.





I do have to point out, the article gets something wrong right off the bat.  It is not at all surprising who is funding these protests.

JVP and INN are not anti-Israel. That is looking at the conflict in a very black and white way which isn't at all helpful.

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/05/03/gaza-pier-food-humanitarian-relief-pentagon/73524492007/

Quote:Graphics show how US is building Gaza pier to aid population isolated by Israel-Hamas war
Stephen J. Beard
George Petras
USA TODAY

American military forces are building two floating platforms off the Gaza coast as a temporary port for delivering as many as 2 million meals a day to civilians facing starvation amid the Israel-Hamas war.

The platforms – known collectively as the Gaza pier – will provide delivery access for ships bringing supplies and humanitarian aid through the island of Cyprus. They should be operational in early May, according to the Pentagon.

Cost of the pier is estimated at $320 million. Construction began April 25 and is now more than 50% complete.


The Mediterranean Sea route is being opened because food deliveries to Gaza by truck are “unpredictable and insufficient,” U.N. officials say. Land routes have been restricted by Israel over security concerns, The Washington Post reported.

All 2.2 million people in Gaza face food insecurity, and at least 1.1 million people are at risk of “catastrophic hunger,” according to a report by U.N. agencies on March 18.

President Joe Biden announced plans for the pier in his State of the Union address on March 7. U.S. service members will build, operate and defend the pier, The Washington Post reported. Biden said no American troops would be deployed into Gaza, however.

What is the Gaza pier?
The Pentagon designates the Gaza pier as a Joint Logistics Over-the-Shore structure. Past versions have been used for disaster relief in Kuwait, Haiti and Central America, the BBC reported.

JLOTS is a group of floating platforms arranged to allow equipment and supplies to reach areas without port facilities, according to the U.S. Transportation Command. The platforms consist of giant floating metal blocks that are maneuvered into position and secured together.

The work will take about 60 days, the Defense Department said.

How will the Gaza pier be used?
The transfer system will work this way:



(1) Food and other supplies for Gaza will first be delivered to Cyprus. All cargo will be inspected – including by X-ray technology – to make sure no weapons are being delivered.

(2) Cleared cargo is loaded aboard ships, which will deliver them to the first JLOTS platform, called a discharge facility, about 200 miles from Cyprus.

The discharge facility is 270 feet long and 72 feet wide and will be anchored about 3 miles off the Gaza shore.

(3) Supply pallets will be offloaded there and transferred to smaller support ships.

(4) The support ships will take supplies to the second platform, known as a Trident Pier. It's named after the staff of the Greek god Poseidon.

Together, the Trident and its driveway-like causeway are about 1,800 feet. The causeway connects the Trident Pier to shore, and trucks will cross it to deliver supplies and return for more.

(5) Israeli forces will again examine the supplies on shore before releasing them for distribution.


How much food will the Gaza pier handle?
The Pentagon has estimated daily food delivery capacity based on the operational status of the pier:


Completed: 90 truckloads
Fully operational: 150 truckloads
150 truckloads is about 2 million meals a day, according to the Pentagon. By comparison, an average of 200 trucks a day entered Gaza in April, Reuters reported.

Why is the Gaza pier needed?
Though many in Gaza are hungry, there's enough food near its borders to feed them, the U.N. says.

The problem is getting the food into Gaza. Humanitarian workers told The New York Times that difficulties hamper deliveries, including Israeli checkpoints and fighting inside the country.

Hamas, which killed an estimated 1,200 people and kidnapped 250 others when it invaded Israel on Oct. 7, has been in control of Gaza since 2007.

In response to the invasion, Israel has limited food and medicine shipments into Gaza. It inspects every truckload for contraband that could aid Hamas. This causes delays, and some trucks wait weeks to enter.


In turn, Hamas has threatened those who help Israel distribute aid within Gaza.

Seven humanitarian workers from the World Central Kitchen died in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza on April 4. Israel later said the strike was a mistake.

Nearly 200 aid workers have died in Gaza since the war began, according to the Aid Worker Security Database.

The U.S and its allies have conducted nearly three dozen airdrops of food into Gaza since March 2. Some aid organizations said the missions were a more expensive and less efficient method than bringing in food by truck.

Who is building the Gaza pier?
The U.S. Central Command is overseeing construction of the Gaza pier, which is a joint effort between the U.S. Army and U.S. Navy, including:

Soldiers from the Army's 7th Transportation Brigade at Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Virginia.
Sailors from Naval Beach Group 1 at Naval Amphibious Base Coronado, California.

About 1,000 U.S. service members are working on the platforms. Those who stay to maintain operations will live aboard the Cardigan Bay, a British navy amphibious ship that will be anchored miles offshore.

Israeli troops are expected to connect the causeway with a point on the Gaza shore. Truck drivers will be from an undisclosed nation and will provide their own security.

Contributing: Tom Vanden Brook and Kim Hjelmgaard

Source: USA TODAY Network reporting and research; U.S. Central Command; U.S. Transportation Command; Reuters

[Dill]

(05-05-2024, 03:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That aside, of course I stand by it.  He hasn't made a single post about the pro-Palestine protestors.  He's responded to posts about them.  He's condemned rhetoric that goes over the line, while also mitigating it by pointing out, "oh, that's in Canada".  But he hasn't made a single post about the negative things being said and done by the pro-Palestinian protestors.  Not a single article, not a single incident, not a single video.  I don't even have to look, he did all my work for me.  But one white frat kid goes over the line and makes a racist gesture, he's on it like stink on shit.  Like I said, interesting.

One Canadian non-student goes over the line and promotes Hamas and you are on it like stink on shit.

Hey, have you posted a single article, incident or video about the positive things being said and done by the pro-Palestinian protestors?

"Balance" is an odd standard here (as is a complaint about "tantrums"), but if that's your standard . . .   . 

[Dill]

(05-05-2024, 08:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: JVP and INN are not anti-Israel. That is looking at the conflict in a very black and white way which isn't at all helpful.

It's not like Soros and Gates are steering money to pro-Palestinian protests.

They donate to philanthropic organizations, sometimes years before events like this.
Then the organization like Tides determine where it goes.  https://www.tides.org/.

Back in 2011, Tides gave money to Adbusters, which had a hand in promoting
protests in Cairo. I remember a conservative media dust up about whether Soros was "behind" the Arab Spring.

[Belsnickel]

(05-05-2024, 09:28 PM)Dill Wrote: It's not like Soros and Gates are steering money to pro-Palestinian protests.

They donate to philanthropic organizations, sometimes years before events like this.
Then the organization like Tides determine where it goes.  https://www.tides.org/.

Back in 2011, Tides gave money to Adbusters, which had a hand in promoting
protests in Cairo. I remember a media dust up about whether Soros was "behind" the Arab Spring.

I know, but you know, bringing up those names just produces the clicks which is what everybody claims to hate about the media but then falls prey to every time.

[*pally*]

well Hamas has agreed to a proposed cease-fire...the ball is in Israel's court now

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-05-2024, 09:07 PM)Dill Wrote: One Canadian non-student goes over the line and promotes Hamas and you are on it like stink on shit.

Well, to be fair I've been rather consistent about these protests and my opinion on them.  

Quote:Hey, have you posted a single article, incident or video about the positive things being said and done by the pro-Palestinian protestors?

Nope!

Quote:"Balance" is an odd standard here (as is a complaint about "tantrums"), but if that's your standard . . .   . 

Noticing a tantrum is not the same as complaining about one.  Thank you.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-05-2024, 09:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I know, but you know, bringing up those names just produces the clicks which is what everybody claims to hate about the media but then falls prey to every time.

If they are funding groups funding these protests that's entirely fair to bring up.

(05-06-2024, 02:06 PM)pally Wrote: well Hamas has agreed to a proposed cease-fire...the ball is in Israel's court now

A proposal from who?  What you just said is analogous to the Steelers saying they've agreed to a trade for Deebo Samuels and the ball is in SF's court now.  Was the trade for a 7th rounder next year?  A source would be useful in this regard.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-humanitarian-aid-8659eae6e0a7362504f0aa4aa4be53e0

Oh, it's a proposal from Egypt and Qatar.  You know, Qatar the same country that provides housing and amnesty to Hamas' senior leadership.  Also from the article above.

There was no immediate comment from Israel on the deal, and details of the proposal have not yet been released.


Seriously, you guys don't even pretend to be objective anymore.

[*pally*]

Qatar, the country that can talk to Hamas leadership.

[Belsnickel]

(05-06-2024, 02:34 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If they are funding groups funding these protests that's entirely fair to bring up.

Correction, they are two funding sources among many who fund a foundation system that provides grants to a lot of different organizations. Among whom, two are astroturfing the protests.

So, Tides Center, one of the branches of the Tides organization had a two page Schedule F in 2022 (foreign grant recipients) and a 55 page Schedule I (domestic recipients). Tides Foundation has a 96 page Schedule F and a 277 page Schedule I. Each of those pages has 9 lines on them which each represents a separate grant recipient. When it comes to the non-profit/grants/community organizing realm I can tell you that Tides and their leadership, let alone their donors, do not care all that much about a single grant recipient or have any influence on them other than what the grant contract says. S mean, we are looking at over 3,800 separate grant recipients.

Call the organizations astroturf all you want to, but tying it back to a third party donor to a foundation the size of Tides that has that many grant recipients is just falling prey to inflammatory media headlines.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-06-2024, 03:04 PM)pally Wrote: Qatar, the country that can talk to Hamas leadership.

Of course they can.  It's rather easy to talk to someone you're hosting.

(05-06-2024, 04:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Correction, they are two funding sources among many who fund a foundation system that provides grants to a lot of different organizations. Among whom, two are astroturfing the protests.

So, Tides Center, one of the branches of the Tides organization had a two page Schedule F in 2022 (foreign grant recipients) and a 55 page Schedule I (domestic recipients). Tides Foundation has a 96 page Schedule F and a 277 page Schedule I. Each of those pages has 9 lines on them which each represents a separate grant recipient. When it comes to the non-profit/grants/community organizing realm I can tell you that Tides and their leadership, let alone their donors, do not care all that much about a single grant recipient or have any influence on them other than what the grant contract says. S mean, we are looking at over 3,800 separate grant recipients.

Call the organizations astroturf all you want to, but tying it back to a third party donor to a foundation the size of Tides that has that many grant recipients is just falling prey to inflammatory media headlines.

I realize these are people with large amounts of money.  That said, there comes a point when a pattern rather starts to emerge.  Fund whatever you like, as long as it's not illegal, but that rather becomes the point when mass arrests are made at functions funded by organization you financially support.  If your money is funding illegal activity you damned well better be aware of it.

[GMDino]

(05-06-2024, 03:04 PM)pally Wrote: Qatar, the country that can talk to Hamas leadership.

Israel rejected the deal.

What I heard this morning was they didn't send a negotiator because they said that was the deal.  Hamas agreed to the deal but *something* got changed...I do no know what that was...and Israel said NOW they will send someone to negotiate.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(05-07-2024, 09:12 AM)GMDino Wrote: Israel rejected the deal.

What I heard this morning was they didn't send a negotiator because they said that was the deal.  Hamas agreed to the deal but *something* got changed...I do no know what that was...and Israel said NOW they will send someone to negotiate.

Ofc the line will get changed, this is nothing more than a distraction really. The people are turning against them and they are afraid they will lose control, so gotta say the right words now, buy time and re-group. That's how I see it, but time will tell, it always does.

[GMDino]

(05-07-2024, 09:51 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ofc the line will get changed, this is nothing more than a distraction really. The people are turning against them and they are afraid they will lose control, so gotta say the right words now, buy time and re-group. That's how I see it, but time will tell, it always does.

Oddly this is also looking bad for Israel and Netanyahu as the deal involved the returning of female hostages in stage one and the rest in the next stage...yes, including the remains of those who have died.  The families of the hostages want them home and Netanyahu prefers to just keep bombing civilians and cutting off supplies..

[Dill]

(05-06-2024, 02:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, to be fair I've been rather consistent about these protests and my opinion on them.  
Nope!
Noticing a tantrum is not the same as complaining about one.  Thank you.

LOL it's "consistency" when you do it, but a fault in Dino.

The forum's #1 rage poster "noticed" a tantrum? 

The consistency in your posts is emotional, not logical. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-07-2024, 10:46 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL it's "consistency" when you do it, but a fault in Dino.

The forum's #1 rage poster "noticed" a tantrum? 

The consistency in your posts is emotional, not logical. 

"Rage poster", you're adorable.

But back to the actual subject of the thread.  Mostly peaceful Portland protestors set a large number of police vehicles on fire.  They stated they knew an attack was coming so they acted preemptively.  I'm sure this action will be roundly condemned by other protestors as they seek to distance themselves from domestic terrorism.  Just kidding, we know that won't happen.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2024/05/police-investigating-claims-of-responsibility-in-arson-fire-that-burned-17-police-cars.html

Right side of history and all that.

[GMDino]

(05-07-2024, 12:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: "Rage poster", you're adorable.

But back to the actual subject of the thread.  Mostly peaceful Portland protestors set a large number of police vehicles on fire.  They stated they knew an attack was coming so they acted preemptively.  I'm sure this action will be roundly condemned by other protestors as they seek to distance themselves from domestic terrorism.  Just kidding, we know that won't happen.

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2024/05/police-investigating-claims-of-responsibility-in-arson-fire-that-burned-17-police-cars.html

Right side of history and all that.

I condemn that action.  

See?  Easy.

I, personally and speaking for no one else, am against violence and vandalism and destruction no matter who does it during the course of a protest.

See?  Easy.

Now I KNOW I didn't post about this first so my "throw away line" will be be considered insufficient but there it is.

Also this still under investigation so it may have been a group that is not involved with the other protestors, no?

And I learned something from the article:

Quote:Rachel Corrie was an American activist from Olympia, Washington, who died in 2003 while protesting the Israeli Army’s destruction of Palestinian houses in Gaza. She was crushed by an Israeli bulldozer and died.

How horrible,

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-07-2024, 12:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: I condemn that action.  

See?  Easy.

I, personally and speaking for no one else, am against violence and vandalism and destruction no matter who does it during the course of a protest.

See?  Easy.

Now I KNOW I didn't post about this first so my "throw away line" will be be considered insufficient but there it is.

It's a start. 

Quote:Also this still under investigation so it may have been a group that is not involved with the other protestors, no?

Wait, what?  They flat out stated they are pro-Palestine protestors.  Or is your claim that they're a hermetically sealed separate entity with no ideological ties to the other protests?  That being the case I'm sure we will see swift and unequivocal condemnation of this action by the other protestors.  Maybe we shouldn't hold our breath though?   

Quote:And I learned something from the article:

How horrible,

Yes, very unfortunate.  Nothing like coopting someone's death as an excuse to commit domestic terrorism.

[GMDino]

(05-07-2024, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's a start. 

It "started" a long time ago. You just don't want to admit it.

(05-07-2024, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wait, what?  They flat out stated they are pro-Palestine protestors.  Or is your claim that they're a hermetically sealed separate entity with no ideological ties to the other protests?  That being the case I'm sure we will see swift and unequivocal condemnation of this action by the other protestors.  Maybe we shouldn't hold our breath though?  

Oh, darling. If a group is marching peacefully and another, different group starts throwing rocks which group is responsible? Think hard.

In my world the second group may say they want the same thing as the first group but their approach is reprehensible and should not reflect on the first group being peaceful. Unless of course that vandalism and violence is supported or cheered on by the 1st group.

(05-07-2024, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, very unfortunate.  Nothing like coopting someone's death as an excuse to commit domestic terrorism.

Crushed by an Israeli bulldozer that was destroying homes in the Gaza strip is more than unfortunate. It also shows how this has been going on for years. I wonder why Palestinians would want to be free of that?