Interesting Burrow Comments...

[jj22]

I find this comment "interesting" because I feel it is all that is wrong with this Offense approach.

Thoughts?

https://www.bengals.com/news/joe-burrow-takes-bengals-offense-for-a-star-trek-spin-i-think-we-re-in-a-spot-that-we-haven-t-been-before

Quote:"If we're in defensive battles, then you come out and you don't turn the ball over, you get the ball out of your hands, you play the field position game. If they're scoring, then you go try to make plays, and run around and do all those good things. I go into every single game ready to adapt to whatever the game needs for me to try to win."

Why does Zac's system always allow the opposing defense to set the tone. I wish he would not play what the defense gives him, but dictate to the defense what they need to play to cover the Offense.

This is an elite offense (supposedly) that should force the opposing Defense to defend them.... Not the other way around.

Why not "try to make plays, and run around and do all those good things" all the time and not just when the opposing team is scoring? I feel like this is why they take their foot off the pedal far too many times, or they play better from behind then they do when the score is 0-0.

[Luvnit2]

(06-11-2025, 01:53 PM)jj22 Wrote: I find this comment "interesting" because I feel it is all that is wrong with this Offense approach.

Thoughts?

https://www.bengals.com/news/joe-burrow-takes-bengals-offense-for-a-star-trek-spin-i-think-we-re-in-a-spot-that-we-haven-t-been-before


Why does Zac's system always allow the opposing defense to set the tone. I wish he would not play what the defense gives him, but dictate to the defense what they need to play to cover the Offense.

This is an elite offense (supposedly) that should force the opposing Defense to defend them.... Not the other way around.

Why not "try to make plays, and run around and do all those good things" all the time and not just when the opposing team is scoring? I feel like this is why they take their foot off the pedal far too many times, or they play better from behind then they do when the score is 0-0.

I may be wrong, but I had a different take. I think they go into every game with a plan to dictate on both sides of the ball. To me his comments were about adapting to what is happening. On days where our offense is being neutralized by a great defense but we are also neutralizing the opposing team's offense, he in particular has to be smart and not give them points with turnovers. In games where the game finds us behind, we have to throw caution to the wind to score taking a lot more risk.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-11-2025, 02:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I may be wrong, but I had a different take. I think they go into every game with a plan to dictate on both sides of the ball. To me his comments were about adapting to what is happening. On days where our offense is being neutralized by a great defense but we are also neutralizing the opposing team's offense, he in particular has to be smart and not give them points with turnovers. In games where the game finds us behind, we have to throw caution to the wind to score taking a lot more risk.

Based on the games we've watched over the years, I don't get that feeling.
I get the feeling they have the first series or two planned out, and then it's just flying by the seat of their pants.
Maybe in some instances, it's them trying to adapt, but some other instances it's definitely trying to force a certain approach even if it continues to not work try after try.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-11-2025, 02:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I may be wrong, but I had a different take. I think they go into every game with a plan to dictate on both sides of the ball. To me his comments were about adapting to what is happening. On days where our offense is being neutralized by a great defense but we are also neutralizing the opposing team's offense, he in particular has to be smart and not give them points with turnovers. In games where the game finds us behind, we have to throw caution to the wind to score taking a lot more risk.

Zac is old school in the sense that there’s a feeling out process early. But Joe is saying if the offense is struggling as is the opponent or other words a defensive battle you don’t get reckless. If it’s a high scoring game then you can’t be conservative. I know 3 former OU OC’s with 5 NC’s. All 3 had specific plays they would run to root out how the defense planned to play them. But it’s also matchups. In our 2 victories ( 1 voided); over Buffalo the staff knew they’d have success offensively and were aggressive. They also were aggressive on the road versus SF. So if a team plays them like they expected then they are more aggressive. So it makes perfect sense what Joe is saying.

[sandwedge]

(06-11-2025, 02:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I may be wrong, but I had a different take. I think they go into every game with a plan to dictate on both sides of the ball. To me his comments were about adapting to what is happening. On days where our offense is being neutralized by a great defense but we are also neutralizing the opposing team's offense, he in particular has to be smart and not give them points with turnovers. In games where the game finds us behind, we have to throw caution to the wind to score taking a lot more risk.

I don't think you are wrong. Joe has to figure out how to push the ball down the field while minimizing the turnovers.

[sandwedge]

(06-11-2025, 06:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Based on the games we've watched over the years, I don't get that feeling.
I get the feeling they have the first series or two planned out, and then it's just flying by the seat of their pants.
Maybe in some instances, it's them trying to adapt, but some other instances it's definitely trying to force a certain approach even if it continues to not work try after try.

Pretty much most, if not all, football teams come out and the first 15 plays are scripted and then they start adjusting to what the defense is showing, we all know Joe gets several options and it's all about what he sees. 

[SunsetBengal]

I think that if Joe truly had his way with the game plan, every game they would score 42-49 points in the first half, and then toy with a worn out defense in the second half.

[jj22]

So we good with the offense lulls if the defense gets a little tough with them. Because that’s what we get. Lulls.

Lulls when we need to pull away. Lulls mid game. Lulls against good defenses.

Until they are behind. Then suddenly they can play aggressive. Just as Burrow stated. They play better from behind. That, when the spin ends, is where this offensive philosophy has led to.

We struggle to close out games because these lulls creep in when we have the chance to. If you can play aggressive when behind you can play aggressive all game. Defenses are tougher when playing with a lead and Burrow pays well when losing the lead. 

I’m not buying it’s a shootout or defensive struggle philosophy. 

[Soonerpeace]

(06-11-2025, 11:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: So we good with the offense lulls if the defense gets a little tough with them. Because that’s what we get. Lulls.

Lulls when we need to pull away. Lulls mid game. Lulls against good defenses.

Until they are behind. Then suddenly they can play aggressive. Just as Burrow stated. They play better from behind. That, when the spin ends, is where this offensive philosophy has led to.

We struggle to close out games because these lulls creep in when we have the chance to. If you can play aggressive when behind you can play aggressive all game. Defenses are tougher when playing with a lead and Burrow pays well when losing the lead. 

I’m not buying it’s a shootout or defensive struggle philosophy. 

You’re not buying the offense is dictated by the flow of the game? That’s what Joe is talking about.

[jj22]

I’m not buying a defense dictates anything to an elite offense.

Or at least it shouldn’t. I think an offense is limited when it’s a take what the defense gives you philosophy. 

I’d like to see our offense do the dictating. 

[phil413]

(06-11-2025, 07:49 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't think you are wrong. Joe has to figure out how to push the ball down the field while minimizing the turnovers.

That's actually their identity on offense. Not many teams can say they're like Mike Tyson with knockout punch on any given play but that's the Bengals.  The high percentage big plays either from Chase or Tee breaking open or getting YAC.  

I think we read this and see this team as capable of the kill we instinct during the regular season of the SB run but the quote sounds more like the playoffs where the defense led us and the offense made timely big plays.  Some of this was higher competition, so maybe we shouldn't read so much into the comment.  I don't think it's justifying the Ravens game settling for a long FG, but if we see that again then yeah...come back to this comment lol.

[puddycat]

The sad truth is that Joe plays much better tied or from behind with higher YPA, Comp%, TD%, Passer Rating and fewer sacks and ints.

The defense OTOH plays much better with a tie or lead.

These combined give me heartburn.

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 12:30 AM)jj22 Wrote: I’m not buying a defense dictates anything to an elite offense.

Or at least it shouldn’t. I think an offense is limited when it’s a take what the defense gives you philosophy. 

I’d like to see our offense do the dictating. 

Remember when teams went to two deep safety looks in early 2023? Not just against the Bengals even in college. Saban moaned about it. Teams had to adjust. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(Yesterday, 12:30 AM)jj22 Wrote: I’m not buying a defense dictates anything to an elite offense.

Or at least it shouldn’t. I think an offense is limited when it’s a take what the defense gives you philosophy. 

I’d like to see our offense do the dictating. 

The offense has elite playmakers .....it doesn't have an elite line in front of it. That creates some issues IMO. 

[THE PISTONS]

(06-11-2025, 07:45 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac is old school in the sense that there’s a feeling out process early. But Joe is saying if the offense is struggling as is the opponent or other words a defensive battle you don’t get reckless. If it’s a high scoring game then you can’t be conservative. I know 3 former OU OC’s with 5 NC’s. All 3 had specific plays they would run to root out how the defense planned to play them. But it’s also matchups. In our 2 victories ( 1 voided); over Buffalo the staff knew they’d have success offensively and were aggressive. They also were aggressive on the road versus SF. So if a team plays them like they expected then they are more aggressive. So it makes perfect sense what Joe is saying.

Yep. A lot of times, we play conservative then open up the offense in the 2nd half and start to throw deep.

I think some of it too is that he realizes the line is bad and if we throw deep the whole game it might expose Burrow to hits.

We played Washington and they had a top pass rush a few years ago and we tried to get aggressive and pass a lot...and Burrow got his knee shredded. Maybe that was just a freak thing and happens even if we go conservative, who knows? But, generally more hits are bad.

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 11:34 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. A lot of times, we play conservative then open up the offense in the 2nd half and start to throw deep.

I think some of it too is that he realizes the line is bad and if we throw deep the whole game it might expose Burrow to hits.

We played Washington and they had a top pass rush a few years ago and we tried to get aggressive and pass a lot...and Burrow got his knee shredded. Maybe that was just a freak thing and happens even if we go conservative, who knows? But, generally more hits are bad.

Because we are behind or have lost the lead.

That Washington game Burrow had 27 passing attempts in less than a half. That isn't what I'm calling for. The QB of the number 1 offense in the league never got close to attempting that many passes in a half.... The line is worth of discussion here, but I don't buy they adjust due to the poor line. Burrow still approaches 30 attempts in the first half most games. 

That's not limiting the offense due to the line issues. So I wouldn't say the offense is conservative, I think they just play whatever the defense lets them play.

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-11-2025, 11:51 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You’re not buying the offense is dictated by the flow of the game? That’s what Joe is talking about.

The offense should NEVER be dictated by the defense. They are the ones that start the play. They are the ones that dictate the response. They are the ones that should control the game. If the defense reacts to what they're doing, they should be able to adjust and force the defense to try something else. 

If you come out aggressive, with the mindset to score early and often, there's no need for this ridiculous "feeling out" process and less of a chance you have to rally and score more at the end of the game to catch up or take the lead. 

Do you think Sam Wyche was worried about feeling out the defense when he incorporated the hurry up or the sugar huddle? No. He was dictating the flow of the game by forcing the defense to adjust to everything they were doing. 

Zac is too passive in moments of the game where he does not NEED to be passive. Adjusting your offense to respond to what the defense is doing is the most bass ackwards way for an offense to operate. 

As an offense, you dictate. When the defense adjusts, you react and force them to have to try something else. 

[Whatever]

(Yesterday, 11:52 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The offense should NEVER be dictated by the defense. They are the ones that start the play. They are the ones that dictate the response. They are the ones that should control the game. If the defense reacts to what they're doing, they should be able to adjust and force the defense to try something else. 

If you come out aggressive, with the mindset to score early and often, there's no need for this ridiculous "feeling out" process and less of a chance you have to rally and score more at the end of the game to catch up or take the lead. 

Do you think Sam Wyche was worried about feeling out the defense when he incorporated the hurry up or the sugar huddle? No. He was dictating the flow of the game by forcing the defense to adjust to everything they were doing. 

Zac is too passive in moments of the game where he does not NEED to be passive. Adjusting your offense to respond to what the defense is doing is the most bass ackwards way for an offense to operate. 

As an offense, you dictate. When the defense adjusts, you react and force them to have to try something else. 

Uhhh...reacting when the defense adjusts and making them do something different is the exact same thing as adjusting your offense to what the defense is doing....

The only way you don't have to adjust to what the defense is doing is if such a wide talent disparity exists that you can just do whatever, but such talent gaps don't exist at the NFL level.  If you're like Ohio State in a tune up game against some MAC school, then yeah.

But all Joe is saying is that if it's a close, low scoring game where points are at a premium, he's going to be more conservative in his  decisions because a turnover can be a backbreaker.  If it's a high scoring game, he's gonna take more chances because there's more pressure to get points on every drive.

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 12:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: But all Joe is saying is that if it's a close, low scoring game where points are at a premium, he's going to be more conservative in his  decisions because a turnover can be a backbreaker.  If it's a high scoring game, he's gonna take more chances because there's more pressure to get points on every drive.

So it'a a shootout or a low scoring game?

That isn't a great philosophy. But it does seem accurate with this team, and why we really don't see many blowouts. or I guess as many as you'd think with an "elite" offense.

Sounds like we'll forever be stressed and on edge in the 4th quarter. 

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 12:52 PM)Whatever Wrote: Uhhh...reacting when the defense adjusts and making them do something different is the exact same thing as adjusting your offense to what the defense is doing....

The only way you don't have to adjust to what the defense is doing is if such a wide talent disparity exists that you can just do whatever, but such talent gaps don't exist at the NFL level.  If you're like Ohio State in a tune up game against some MAC school, then yeah.

But all Joe is saying is that if it's a close, low scoring game where points are at a premium, he's going to be more conservative in his  decisions because a turnover can be a backbreaker.  If it's a high scoring game, he's gonna take more chances because there's more pressure to get points on every drive.

Thank you it’s not a hard concept. But teams feel out early in games the other teams defense. It’s elementary