A tale of two DE's

[spazz70]

(08-06-2025, 07:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow turns 29 during this season. Kinda seems “near” to me. The clock is ticking.

Really?  QBs play in to there mid 30s to 40s nowadays.  DE can drop anytime after 30, like a steep cliff just like RBs or others that get hit every play.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-06-2025, 08:25 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Really?  QBs play in to there mid 30s to 40s nowadays. 

In the words of Dr Henry Jones Jr - it’s not the years, it’s the mileage.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2025, 05:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, it's not. His cap hit for this year is $18.666M, yes the cash he is due is only 15.8, but $28M isn't near "doubling" his salary. He's worth so much more and the Bengals should do him right and give him the real deal so that he can retire as a Bengal.

Thanks, I also heard they offered him 32 mil per year before they got the Ja'Marr and Tee's deals done. Which is even more than double.

We can argue what is nearly double all we want. I would of taken the 28 mil per year, but we still don't know the guarantees and the years
so maybe I wouldn't of taken it. Still, much better than 15.8 mil per year which he will be getting if he doesn't sign a deal.

(08-06-2025, 06:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Then you can't call it decent.

Even if we ignore the details (which are all that actually matter), 68% of the market isn't "decent". That's like today offering Burrow a $40.8m/yr deal or Chase a $27.2m/yr deal and saying it's a decent offer.

Yes I can, but I understand if we don't know the details it may of not been decent, true that TLL.

(08-06-2025, 06:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Let me ask you...if you knew your new offered salary was about 70% of your peers and they perform at about the same level as you, would you consider that close enough?

I think if the Bengals were offering $35 mill APY, that's much closer to being "fair," but $28 mill is too far off the contracts that Watt and Garrett got. And their production and age are about the same as Hendrickson, so that can't really be an excuse.

Good question, with Twatt it is even more fair because they are about the same age. But Twatt is still a better run stopper than Trey.

Garrett got paid big time because he is a younger dual threat End with still a ton of upside. Trey is a great pass rusher though and I 
understand wanting around 32-35 mil per year, but the Bengals paid a lot of dough out to Tee and made Ja'Marr the highest paid non
QB in the NFL. Sometimes you need to have a middle ground.

In the end if they get a deal done with Trey I will be really happy. I never thought they would be able to pay all 3 of our guys.

[Sled21]

(08-06-2025, 07:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Noone knows the dollar amounts. We do know Trey has a zero guaratee right now so anything offered was a 100% guarantee in 2025 at a minimum. We do know he gets less than 16 million (none guaranteed and thus if he sits out a game loses 950,000 a game.

My understanding is the money is agreed upon, it's when the guarantees kick in is the issue. Trey wants guarantees in the 3rd year.

[coachmcneil71]

(08-06-2025, 04:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm driving down to Adair County this morning for an investigation, and I'm listening to Bob Papa on "Airing it Out" on NFL radio. They are discussing Micah Parsons and the Cowboys. After months of listening to them excoriate the Bengals over the Trey Hendrickson saga, they say the Cowboys are playing it smart. That Parsons is not a free agent, is still under contract to make 22 million this year (The Bengals offered Trey 28), and they have the option to franchise tag Parsons twice. The Cowboys will not trade Parsons. Two DE's, both holding in, both under contract, neither will be traded, yet the Bengals are buffoons and the Cowboys are smart. They mentioned that Watt and Crosby got their deals done, but there was no mention of Trey at all. It's just simply amazing.

There's been a ton of this crap in the media over the summer. It reached the point that I won't even click on such articles. Most are atrociously uninformed or being peddled by notorious Bengal haters in the media. Most outlets aren't worth the time or energy spent. Bottom line, we get Trey on the field, save a little money just in case we need to bring in a FA O-lineman, and I'd venture to say that we had a damn solid offseason. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-07-2025, 03:09 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: There's been a ton of this crap in the media over the summer. It reached the point that I won't even click on such articles. Most are atrociously uninformed or being peddled by notorious Bengal haters in the media. Most outlets aren't worth the time or energy spent. Bottom line, we get Trey on the field, save a little money just in case we need to bring in a FA O-lineman, and I'd venture to say that we had a damn solid offseason. 

Truth, like I said, I expected to lose one of Trey or Tee this Offseason by trade. If we have all 3 of our top FA's and more brought back 
that is kind of crazy to me. We brought back a lot more guys like BJ Hill and others as well. We certainly didn't regress and with the youth
and the new coaches we could be golden, no pun intended.

[*bfine32*]

(08-06-2025, 06:29 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Then you can't call it decent.

Even if we ignore the details (which are all that actually matter), 68% of the market isn't "decent". That's like today offering Burrow a $40.8m/yr deal or Chase a $27.2m/yr deal and saying it's a decent offer.

(08-06-2025, 07:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Nate can call it anything. 

You keep forgetting he is under contract for less than 16 million + 200K per game in 2025. So, you compare to others, but he is the one under contract in 2025 and at risk not getting any deal.

(08-06-2025, 07:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, he can, and then I can point out that it's factually incorrect. Who made you questioner of the forum?  

How can I forget something that you repeat 5 times per day and literally twice, to me, in the same thread, in the span of 5 minutes?

[*ochocincos*]

(08-07-2025, 01:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good question, with Twatt it is even more fair because they are about the same age. But Twatt is still a better run stopper than Trey.

Garrett got paid big time because he is a younger dual threat End with still a ton of upside. Trey is a great pass rusher though and I 
understand wanting around 32-35 mil per year, but the Bengals paid a lot of dough out to Tee and made Ja'Marr the highest paid non
QB in the NFL. Sometimes you need to have a middle ground.

In the end if they get a deal done with Trey I will be really happy. I never thought they would be able to pay all 3 of our guys.

Well I think they at least need to get into the realm of $35+ mill, as that's Danielle Hunter money.

Comparing Hendrickson to Hunter last year:
Hunter is just over a month older than Hendrickson

PFF scores last year:
Hunter - 80.7 pass rush grade, 70.1 run defense grade. 66 total pressures (12.0 sacks)
Hendrickson - 90.4 pass rush grade, 65.9 run defense grade. 83 total pressures (17.5 sacks)

Yes, Hendrickson is not quite the run defender that Hunter, Garrett, and Watt are, but he's a better pass rusher than at least Hunter, and he really should be paid more than Hunter at least.
I'm not saying he needs or is demanding $40+ mill APY for 3 years, but offering him at least $35 mill APY is justified.
With that said, "worse" players always seem to end up getting more than some of their "better" counterparts and resetting the market, so it really just takes one team to offer Hendrickson $40+ mill or some new player to end up getting more than Garrett and Watt for Hendrickson to go "hey, I'm better than that guy, but you're only offering me $28 mill?"

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 09:43 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Well I think they at least need to get into the realm of $35+ mill, as that's Danielle Hunter money.

Comparing Hendrickson to Hunter last year:
Hunter is just over a month older than Hendrickson

PFF scores last year:
Hunter - 80.7 pass rush grade, 70.1 run defense grade. 66 total pressures (12.0 sacks)
Hendrickson - 90.4 pass rush grade, 65.9 run defense grade. 83 total pressures (17.5 sacks)

Yes, Hendrickson is not quite the run defender that Hunter, Garrett, and Watt are, but he's a better pass rusher than at least Hunter, and he really should be paid more than Hunter at least.
I'm not saying he needs or is demanding $40+ mill APY for 3 years, but offering him at least $35 mill APY is justified.
With that said, "worse" players always seem to end up getting more than some of their "better" counterparts and resetting the market, so it really just takes one team to offer Hendrickson $40+ mill or some new player to end up getting more than Garrett and Watt for Hendrickson to go "hey, I'm better than that guy, but you're only offering me $28 mill?"

Danielle Hunter is an excellent comparison. Nice post Ochocincos, cannot disagree with anything you say here. Trey deserves more 
than 28 mil per year and he needs the guarantees for at least a couple of years. We will see what it is once it happens. Expecting to
get him extended after the last Preseason game so he can practice before the opener against the Stains. 32-35 mil per year is what
he deserves for at least the first year, but as far as after a couple years the guarantees should go away with him getting older IMO.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 01:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Danielle Hunter is an excellent comparison. Nice post Ochocincos, cannot disagree with anything you say here. Trey deserves more 
than 28 mil per year and he needs the guarantees for at least a couple of years. We will see what it is once it happens. Expecting to
get him extended after the last Preseason game so he can practice before the opener against the Stains. 32-35 mil per year is what
he deserves for at least the first year, but as far as after a couple years the guarantees should go away with him getting older IMO.

What I would do personally is...

Hendrickson previously signed a 1-year, $21 mill deal to stay with Bengals.
I would maybe look to take on an additional 2 years at $80 mill, which would bring his total including this year to $101 mill.
That's $33.67 mill APY total from 2025-2027.
Try to front load that such that he gets more $$ for this year and reduced money in 2027 to account for age.
Guarantee $60 mill in total.

In terms of new contract extension, it's an additional $40 mill APY, which is right there with Garrett and Watt for APY in new money.
It doesn't set a new bar for the market, but it helps justify putting him in the realm of his peers and gets him a good chunk of guaranteed.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 01:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What I would do personally is...

Hendrickson previously signed a 1-year, $21 mill deal to stay with Bengals.
I would maybe look to take on an additional 2 years at $80 mill, which would bring his total including this year to $101 mill.
That's $33.67 mill APY total from 2025-2027.
Try to front load that such that he gets more $$ for this year and reduced money in 2027 to account for age.
Guarantee $60 mill in total.

In terms of new contract extension, it's an additional $40 mill APY, which is right there with Garrett and Watt for APY in new money.
It doesn't set a new bar for the market, but it helps justify putting him in the realm of his peers and gets him a good chunk of guaranteed.

Sounds great to me and it can be done.