(05-02-2025, 02:48 PM)J24 Wrote: Behind this offense line? All of them would do worse than Burrow! No, QB can do what Burrow has done over the past 4 seasons when healthy. No other QB would have lead their team  to the Superbowl in the 2021 season and no other QB would  have lead the league in passing yards and TDs in 2024.

(05-02-2025, 02:48 PM)J24 Wrote: Behind this offense line? All of them would do worse than Burrow! No, QB can do what Burrow has done over the past 4 seasons when healthy. No other QB would have lead their team  to the Superbowl in the 2021 season and no other QB would  have lead the league in passing yards and TDs in 2024.

(05-02-2025, 02:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So Burrow is the most mobile/elusive QB in the NFL right now?

(05-02-2025, 03:14 PM)J24 Wrote: When did I say that?

(05-02-2025, 03:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I said 2 or 3. I see Buffalo with a Allen. Trubisky as #1.

Rush for Jackson would require a retool of the Raven offense in my opinion

Browning has proven he can run our offense and win games as a Bengal QB.

(05-02-2025, 02:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There's nothing i can't refute because every QB has his advantages and disadvantages. I focused on you saying he benefits on so many things that Mahomes doesn't, because it's tangential. 

I'm not going to go line by line comparing every position and every coach because each player had his +/- and it's subjective. 

As was stated earlier, winning games and winning championships usually determines who is best and how do you argue against a guy that has 3 rings on his fingers, 5 super bowl appearances and has NEVER missed the AFCCG since he's been the starter?

As a side note, i've always been of the belief that excuses are for losers because you never hear them from the winning side...

Take all the hardware from Mahomes and give it to Burrow and tell me how hard you would laugh at anyone saying that any other QB is even in Burrow's tier. 

(05-02-2025, 04:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Right after you said this. 

"Behind this offense line? All of them would do worse than Burrow! No, QB can do what Burrow has done over the past 4 seasons when healthy. No other QB would have lead their team  to the Superbowl in the 2021 season and no other QB would  have lead the league in passing yards and TDs in 2024."



"No other QB" could do what he did implies that he's the most elusive/mobile QB in the NFL. 'No one else could have done better'. If no one else could do better, you're the best at it.

(05-02-2025, 04:55 PM)J24 Wrote: OK stretch Armstrong!

(05-01-2025, 08:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know you were arguing with J24 TLL, but Mahomes was like a mid-tier QB last year. It is a what have you done lately league.

Joe, Lamar along with maybe Goff and Allen were the best QB's last season. 

Mahomes benefits from so much along with great coaching that Joe simply does not have.

(05-02-2025, 09:17 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Although I ranked JB #2, I agree with the highlighted. 

Mahomes does benefit from great coaching and a good defense. But one of the most important factor in his/their success is the fact that AFC West collectively has been weak for several years, which gives some merit to the argument that he has had a competitive advantage. They have been feasting on Raiders, Broncos and Chargers for years. Chargers and Raiders put up some resistance a year or two, but thats it.  

I don't believe he would have had the same success playing in AFC North for Kevin Stefanski. Would he have had the same success playing the Ravens and Steelers 4 times a year and facing burrow twice a year? I firmly believe that the answer to that question in NO.

Payton and Harbaugh are changing that division and I would not be surprised to see impact on Mahome's success. Mahome's statistics downturn since '23 has coincided with arrival of Payton in '23 and Harbaugh in '24. 

When I first posted on this thread, I did ask that parameters/criteria be placed on how we rank the QBs. Strength of division should be one of the criteria. If 1/3 of your games every year have been against subpar Teams, you have an advantage. Burrow has had to face Superbowl winning coaches 4 times EVERY year.  

(05-02-2025, 09:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Mahomes is 13-3 vs the AFC North...

You can't just magically put him on the Browns and say he wouldn't be as good. 

(05-02-2025, 09:17 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Although I ranked JB #2, I agree with the highlighted. 

Mahomes does benefit from great coaching and a good defense. But one of the most important factor in his/their success is the fact that AFC West collectively has been weak for several years, which gives some merit to the argument that he has had a competitive advantage. They have been feasting on Raiders, Broncos and Chargers for years. Chargers and Raiders put up some resistance a year or two, but thats it.  

I don't believe he would have had the same success playing in AFC North for Kevin Stefanski. Would he have had the same success playing the Ravens and Steelers 4 times a year and facing burrow twice a year? I firmly believe that the answer to that question in NO.

Payton and Harbaugh are changing that division and I would not be surprised to see impact on Mahome's success. Mahome's statistics downturn since '23 has coincided with arrival of Payton in '23 and Harbaugh in '24. 

When I first posted on this thread, I did ask that parameters/criteria be placed on how we rank the QBs. Strength of division should be one of the criteria. If 1/3 of your games every year have been against subpar Teams, you have an advantage. Burrow has had to face Superbowl winning coaches in their division 4 times EVERY year.  

Now Mahomes will face SB winning HCs 6 times each year. Once Payton, Harbaugh and Carrol get their Rosters set, lets then see how Mahomes does.

(05-03-2025, 06:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes sir XsandOs and we should not just make believe that Andy Reid doesn't exist. Put Joe Burrow over there with the Chiefs with Andy Reid.

Guarantee he has a couple SB wins by now. Nothing against Zac, but he isn't Andy Reid, we always start slow under Zac and our Offense is 
extremely predictable with our playcalling. Joe Burrow does what he does in spite of poor playcalling, poor OL play, a poor running game, always 
being in the shotgun whether he wants it or not and a terrible Defense on the other side of the ball.

We will see how Mahomes plays now that Thuney is in Vegas as well. Mahomes was a mid tier QB last season and it isn't getting any better for
the dude. Lamar Jackson should be the QB everybody is comparing with Joe Burrow and Joe had better numbers last year, but Lamar swept Joe.

(05-03-2025, 10:56 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Nate, I think we all agree that ranking players is just a difficult process. When it comes to cream of the crop, it is almost impossible. So heart plays as much of a role as does the mind in this case.

I have all the respect in the world for Mahomes, because irrespective of the aforementioned advantages, he still has to go out there and win. Which he has!

But one can wonder how successful Burrow would have been in the same scenario - but that would mean we would not have him on our Team. That would be a nightmare!

When all is said and done, I can say for certain that Holyfield was better than Tyson the night they fought. If player A is not truly going head-to-head with Player B, then it is a matter of opinion - which each has value.