Grade the current (last 5 years) FO

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2025, 07:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As a note to the OP, the common letter grading scale should have "C" as average, having Outstanding and Excellent as A and B is a little redundant, and no need for "O".

A = Excellence, outstanding work
B = Good, better than most
C = Average, can do better
D = Poor, get someone else in charge
F = Failure, can somebody who can run a franchise please buy this team?

I still vote C, but yeah, that is the way the poll should be...

(06-17-2025, 07:34 PM)jason Wrote: Tee just shows that RAS isn't everything (don't get me wrong,bits important and I wish our O line especially graded higher). Higgins has traits that can't be taught, and watching him in college had me pretty excited when we landed him. Trevor Lawrence hasn't looked so "generational" without Tee Higgins... Just sayin'.

All true Jason. I love how Tee has grown as a pass catcher and how he just snatches the ball out of the air with his hands away from his body and
makes DB's look like his bitches now. He really grown as a Receiver last year in my opinion and changed my mind on keeping him. Before last year I 
was for moving on from him and keeping Trey instead.

I know the Trey stuff is still hovering but in the end we might be able to keep all 4 of our top guys which would be fantastic.

(06-17-2025, 08:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’ll be officially out of excuses on that front this season. Brian Thomas Jr and Travis Hunter is a pretty nasty WR duo for any QB.

No doubt, those are some talented sumbitches. Wanted us to draft Brian Thomas Jr if we were moving on from Tee.

(06-17-2025, 11:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, if we're not allowed to consider the good moves, then my score's going to be lower.

Have to consider the good moves. A lot don't though that is for sure so their neg bias is shown in the poll.

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I was inclined to go D, but I went C because they did get deals done with all of Burrow, Chase, and Higgins.
I haven't been a huge fan of the past two drafts, but this org can prove me wrong this year.
I also was not a fan of the FA haul this year or last year.
With that said, we have to factor in since 2021, so the two deep playoff runs do offset these past couple bad years for me personally.

Losing Bates was gross mismanagement. He was in his prime and they could easily fit him under the cap. 

That and all things said in this thread, i can't give them any better or worse than a C. Middle of the road, milquetoast, average. 

Pretty much any positive can be balanced by a negative or viceversa.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 02:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Losing Bates was gross mismanagement. He was in his prime and they could easily fit him under the cap. 

That and all things said in this thread, i can't give them any better or worse than a C. Middle of the road, milquetoast, average. 

Pretty much any positive can be balanced by a negative or viceversa.

To be fair, Bengals haven't really seemed keen on signing any defensive players to big, market-setting megadeals, instead trying to draft replacements for them and have those guys ride the pine as rookies before being pushed into heavy reps once the incumbent departs.

But I agree, I was sad to see Bates depart.
I loved Bates as a Bengal.
But we know the Bengals (or specifically the FO) don't consider safety to be near the top of priorities for paying defensive guys.
CB and DL have traditionally been the priority.
I think back when it was Hendrickson-Hill-Reader-Hubbard, every one of them was making $8+ mill APY. They had a lot of money tied up into one position group.

Had they also kept Bates and Reader though, I probably would have put them closer to B.

[*Synric*]

Lets face it they are not even an average front office they are bottom tier mostly because they run a bare bones organization.

They are easily the smallest scouting department and the smallest front office. They don't have a General Manager. Duke Tobin is the de facto GM but hes really the Director of Player Personnel. The majority of the NFL has both a GM and a Director of Player Personnel. When it comes to contracts they are an extreme when ir comes to guaranteeing money and how they structure.


You can argue that some owners get in the way and mess teams up like the Panthers and the Jets but the Bengals just run their team at about 1/3rd the scale to the rest of the NFL...

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 03:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Lets face it they are not even an average front office they are bottom tier mostly because they run a bare bones organization.

They are easily the smallest scouting department and the smallest front office. They don't have a General Manager. Duke Tobin is the de facto GM but hes really the Director of Player Personnel. The majority of the NFL has both a GM and a Director of Player Personnel. When it comes to contracts they are an extreme when ir comes to guaranteeing money and how they structure.


You can argue that some owners get in the way and mess teams up like the Panthers and the Jets but the Bengals just run their team at about 1/3rd the scale to the rest of the NFL...

It could be argued that if only 1/3 as you stated, that 1/3 is damn good to make up for that scale.

I beleive in effeciency, I always have so to me it is the end product. The horrid fo you describe has not had a losing season since JB was a rookie and got injured. Our franchise QB has not been a picture of health, but still straight winning seasons. I think they are average to good as well, but I don't think they are as bad as many like to say they are when you look at the results.

[SouthernFan]

Ignoring your letter grades and going with the descriptive rating I have to say average. While they have managed to acquire several elite players, other shortcomings in scouting and coaching and player development continues to drag them down to average results. Progress continues to be made as a new generation takes the reins. Hopefully we see better results this year and going forward.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 05:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It could be argued that if only 1/3 as you stated, that 1/3 is damn good to make up for that scale.

I beleive in effeciency, I always have so to me it is the end product. The horrid fo you describe has not had a losing season since JB was a rookie and got injured. Our franchise QB has not been a picture of health, but still straight winning seasons. I think they are average to good as well, but I don't think they are as bad as many like to say they are when you look at the results.

Mostly because of their ineptitude in protecting him. That’s a major strike against the FO.

[Tiger Teeth]

Another off-season Poll?

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:41 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mostly because of their ineptitude in protecting him. That’s a major strike against the FO.

His wrist injury was kind of a fluke and had nothing to do with protection. But, no doubt, our OL just like KC has been horrid at times the past 5 years.

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 03:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Lets face it they are not even an average front office they are bottom tier mostly because they run a bare bones organization.

They are easily the smallest scouting department and the smallest front office. They don't have a General Manager. Duke Tobin is the de facto GM but hes really the Director of Player Personnel. The majority of the NFL has both a GM and a Director of Player Personnel. When it comes to contracts they are an extreme when ir comes to guaranteeing money and how they structure.


You can argue that some owners get in the way and mess teams up like the Panthers and the Jets but the Bengals just run their team at about 1/3rd the scale to the rest of the NFL...

On target

[*pally*]

Positively Newtonian...for every good decision there is an equal and opposite awful one

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 06:43 PM)pally Wrote: Positively Newtonian...for every good decision there is an equal and opposite awful one

I don't disagree, but I am curious of what you would say were the worst 5 decisions since 2020 (the timeframe of the poll and discussion)?

[SunsetBengal]

(8 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree, but I am curious of what you would say were the worst 5 decisions since 2020 (the timeframe of the poll and discussion)?

Actually, 2020 does not fit into the 5 year window. Counting 2025 (as it is actively happening), your window includes back to the 2021 season. Some may consider including 2020 as a tactic described as "moving the goal posts".

[TecmoBengals]

Shouldn't C be average?

[t3r3e3]

(Yesterday, 03:35 PM)Synric Wrote: Lets face it they are not even an average front office they are bottom tier mostly because they run a bare bones organization.

They are easily the smallest scouting department and the smallest front office. They don't have a General Manager. Duke Tobin is the de facto GM but hes really the Director of Player Personnel. The majority of the NFL has both a GM and a Director of Player Personnel. When it comes to contracts they are an extreme when ir comes to guaranteeing money and how they structure.


You can argue that some owners get in the way and mess teams up like the Panthers and the Jets but the Bengals just run their team at about 1/3rd the scale to the rest of the NFL...

Truth. It’s the only mom and pop operation in the NFL, where all the Family has jobs (deserved or not). Mike still pays himself a GM salary, unless something has changed and now Katie gets the title.

[Whatever]

(8 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't disagree, but I am curious of what you would say were the worst 5 decisions since 2020 (the timeframe of the poll and discussion)?

Mine are...

1.Re-Hiring Frank Pollack, who failed to build even an average OL despite a ton of FA's and draft picks.  Chase snapping Ramsey's ankles and running wide open down the sideline while Spain just watches Donald run straight by him untouched to Burrow is the ultimate Bengals "What might have been."

2.Tagging, then re-upping Tee Higgins.  Injury prone players tend to get more injury prone as their careers progress.  Beyond that, he's simply not a super elite talent, and his career stats and accolades back this up.  Plus, paying top dollar for a WR2 makes little sense when WR had one of the best hit rates for us regarding Day 1/2 picks.

3.Basically botching the S situation.  I can understand not wanting to to pay top dollar for the inconsistent Bates and they were proven right on Bell being done.  But they've struggled to address it since, trying to move a college CB out of position and bringing in B/C tier FA's.  No reason for it still to be a question mark this year.

4.Not getting Chase 's deal done last year.  Then, he goes out and destroys the league and puts himself in a position where he can name his own price.  Being fair, they got it done this year, but the impact of the delay on the cap will be felt for years.

5.La'el Collins.  Every team has their misses in FA and the draft, but it was obvious Collins had nothing left.  Expensive mistake.

[Frank Booth]

I can’t believe there are people who defend this front office

[*Synric*]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, 2020 does not fit into the 5 year window. Counting 2025 (as it is actively happening), your window includes back to the 2021 season. Some may consider including 2020 as a tactic described as "moving the goal posts".

I can't look at it through a lense of a 5 year window when it was just a few years ago they were one of the most inept franchises in all of sports not just football. 

2021 and 2022 are looking more like flash in a pan success than continuous. Reminds me of post-Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson getting paid. How the Bengals let the rest of the roster fall to pieces.

[SunsetBengal]

(5 hours ago)Synric Wrote: I can't look at it through a lense of a 5 year window when it was just a few years ago they were one of the most inept franchises in all of sports not just football. 

2021 and 2022 are looking more like flash in a pan success than continuous. Reminds me of post-Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson getting paid. How the Bengals let the rest of the roster fall to pieces.

You're absolutely right, it is tough to judge the management based upon such a small snapshot, as those who have followed the team for generations have seen similar situations unfold more than once before. 

[*Synric*]

(5 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're absolutely right, it is tough to judge the management based upon such a small snapshot, as those who have followed the team for generations have seen similar situations unfold more than once before. 

We are all fans here but it's hard not to look at the Bengals and think they are running their organization like a half-staffed Gabes.