Trey Hendrickson Update

[Luvnit2]

(9 hours ago)samhain Wrote: This is a needlessly dumb situation.  

Trey holds all of the short term cards.  That's a situation of the team's construction.  Insistence on waiting to address extensions costs them money every time.  They can't seem to do two things at once.  As a result, we are looking at a very pedestrian defense with it's best player's foot halfway out the door.  Their most impactful acquisition this offseason (Stewart) is a huge wild card.  We'll be lucky if he compliments Trey at all, much less replaces his production.  

Does he? He has one play and that is to sit out. He starts getting fined if he misses any madatory practices, TC and games. His 15.8 million could become 10 million by October.

If he sits out 2025, the contract rolls over to 2026.

Sorry, Bengals hold the cards. They can bring it a vet to replace him after week #1 and the vet would not be guaranteed any money in 2025, so they could cut them if Trey came back from a hold out.

[3wt]

(9 hours ago)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Bingo. That's what the guys on twitter who are usually right, deduced as well (me too: a lot of, "my family needs to be taken care of," and not a lot of, "I'm underpaid," type of talk in his interview).



Who the Browns owner has thrown a ton of his business/personal cash at to skirt the cap rules and all that. The Browns (family) can't do that.



I agree, but I'll go one better and to simply accept what the Bengals HAVE offered him or, at the very least, work with them and not just flat-out say, "they're disrespecting me."

The optics are bad on both sides and both sides dropped the ball: the initial ball-dropping was on his agent, the follow-up is on both of them.

I agree with most all of this Truck, and there is certainly culpability on both the part of Trey and his agent.

But three things:   
1) Getting any agreement from the Bengals is like pulling teeth out of a razorback with your fingers

2) I don't care about the optics.   It's time for the Bengals to step up and put together the kind of team that they have the resources to do.
The guy was the best pass rusher in the league last season and the only difference maker on a defense that was the # 1 reason they didn't
go to the playoffs.   They drafted some talent to help boost that defense to be what is needed to be IF Trey is still on the team.  If they 
want to get a ring they need to stop diddling around and get their house in order.

3) As much as I have complained about Zach, his best work has been to build a culture that makes players want to be here and play for the Bengals.
Part of that culture is fed or starved by disrespecting and frustrating your players (to say nothing of letting the other good ones go).  Why play 
chicken with your own players?  Let's make them feel that everyone is on the same team with winning as the primary goal.   Make them feel 
wanted, respected and psyched to have them playing for a championship team.   

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(9 hours ago)J24 Wrote: Tee is getting 30 per a year and is allocated 24 million in cap space. Chase is getting 40 a year and is allocated 23.5 million a year.

I am certain that Trey cap hit won't double in price.

Those are 4-5 year deals. Trey's will be 2-3. Much harder to reduce the cap hit as far below the APY there. 

You are missing the point. The point isn't that Chase & Tee come in below their APY in Y1, they do. The point is, it should be lower (by about $11 mil, total). We didn't save any money directly, the payout was the same, but the cap hit was higher. 

This is either incredibly stupid cap management, or, Mikey & Family did not want to clear cap space, because then they would need to spend that $$ on players. FA's or Trey. And now they can plead cap space. They can pocket the rest this way without taking as much criticism.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-cost-themselves-significant-cap-space-questionable-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins-contract-structure

There was every football related incentive for them to maximize cap space on those deals and they chose not to. I believe, in whole or in part so they could be mizerly in FA (Trey and/or FA's). 

Conversely, now, the football reasons make spending it this year more of an option. Especially if they are basically done in FA. Which it looks like to me. 

If so, there is not a real benefit saving cap for this year. I mean, rollover, sure. But if I am choosing where to structure the deal, I'd rather pay $5-10 mil more this year than next at this point. FA is over. 

[Clark W Griswold]

I think the FO was unprepared for the rise in salaries for the top edge rushers. They probably did tell Trey last year that they would extend him this offseason but they did not plan or anticipate the market to be $30-35 million per year.
This is another mess up by the FO that they now do not have a solid plan to fix. They probably figured $25-28 million per year would get it done. I would guess that the number they are still offering. Knowing how the FO works and reading this quote form Trey makes me believe they are low-balling him for sure:

“I'm not going to apologize for the rates of the defensive ends being paid in the National Football League”

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I think the FO was unprepared for the rise in salaries for the top edge rushers.  They probably did tell Trey last year that they would extend him this offseason but they did not plan or anticipate the market to be $30-35 million per year.
This is another mess up by the FO that they now do not have a solid plan to fix. They probably figured $25-28 million per year would get it done.  I would guess that the number they are still offering.  Knowing how the FO works and reading this quote form Trey makes me believe they are low-balling him for sure:

“I'm not going to apologize for the rates of the defensive ends being paid in the National Football League”

I heard 32 mil per year is what Trey was offered, that is plenty for him at his age. Agree that the deals for Madd Maxx and Garrett probably threw 
the FO off, but Trey getting double of what he is currently getting sure isn't unfair to the guy and that is what they offered reportedly.

Like always it is guaranteed money holding these things up. Just like it was with Ja'Marr and Tee.

[NUGDUKWE]

(9 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: Trey has zero cards to play. He's under contract this year and can be tagged twice. He can retire, but if he comes back the Bengals still own his rights and can do the same thing. He can loaf all season, but good luck getting a big money deal at 32 with a bad season. He has to ball out this year to get interest anywhere else next year. 

I don't get why people seem happy about the Bengals being the only team in the league who treats players as poorly as the Bengals do. Perhaps your not happy about it but the Bengals are in the process of throwing away a prime window for a superbowl. Nothing anyone should be enjoying but perhaps that's just me.

[Nepa]

(9 hours ago)3wt Wrote: I agree with most all of this Truck, and there is certainly culpability on both the part of Trey and his agent.

But three things:   
1) Getting any agreement from the Bengals is like pulling teeth out of a razorback with your fingers

2) I don't care about the optics.   It's time for the Bengals to step up and put together the kind of team that they have the resources to do.
The guy was the best pass rusher in the league last season and the only difference maker on a defense that was the # 1 reason they didn't
go to the playoffs.   They drafted some talent to help boost that defense to be what is needed to be IF Trey is still on the team.  If they 
want to get a ring they need to stop diddling around and get their house in order.

3) As much as I have complained about Zach, his best work has been to build a culture that makes players want to be here and play for the Bengals.
Part of that culture is fed or starved by disrespecting and frustrating your players (to say nothing of letting the other good ones go).  Why play 
chicken with your own players?  Let's make them feel that everyone is on the same team with winning as the primary goal.   Make them feel 
wanted, respected and psyched to have them playing for a championship team.   

Your point 3 is particularly apropos and well stated. The Bengals management does hold the financial cards, but having their best defensive player (and a fan favorite) be disgruntled and seemingly disrespected really eats away at team culture. The Chiefs redid Mahomes contract when he exceeded the expected and when inferior QBs started getting more than Mahomes; whatever the Bengals management did, they certain mismanaged this situation to where it has become a major story -- and one not putting the Bengals in a good light.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't get why people seem happy about the Bengals being the only team in the league who treats players as poorly as the Bengals do. Perhaps your not happy about it but the Bengals are in the process of throwing away a prime window for a superbowl. Nothing anyone should be enjoying but perhaps that's just me.

Sled didn't sound happy about it to me in the post you quoted. How did the Bengals treat Trey poorly again?

They reportedly offered him 32 mil per year and just made Ja'Marr the highest paid non-QB in the NFL and paid Tee big money on top of it.

Just facts.

[SunsetBengal]

(9 hours ago)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Bingo. That's what the guys on twitter who are usually right, deduced as well (me too: a lot of, "my family needs to be taken care of," and not a lot of, "I'm underpaid," type of talk in his interview).

The optics are bad on both sides and both sides dropped the ball: the initial ball-dropping was on his agent, the follow-up is on both of them.

I hate it when accomplished players, who have already made a handsome fortune in their lifetime resort to the "my family needs to be taken care of" line. While he's definitely not making what his stats would reflect, he's made more than 99% people in World will ever make, already. I wish he would just stick to the business line of "I've outplayed my salary, I've earned a raise". It's honest, to the point, and includes no phony heart strings.

Yes, the optics of this situation are horrible. The team bent over backwards to make a WR that's only available 71% of the time the past two seasons very wealthy, and he hasn't even touched 1,000 yards the past two seasons, let alone led the league twice in a very coveted statistical category. This part is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that the Bengals only want to extend for one year and Trey would prefer a 3 year extension. Seems like a fair compromise would be a 2 year extension, giving him 3 more years total with the Bengals. He could retire as a Bengal and be filthy rich for the rest of his lifetime.

[Sled21]

(8 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sled didn't sound happy about it to me in the post you quoted. How did the Bengals treat Trey poorly again?

They reportedly offered him 32 mil per year and just made Ja'Marr the highest paid non-QB in the NFL and paid Tee big money on top of it.

Just facts.

Exactly! Being happy at a situation and knowing it is what it is are not the same thing. Trey's angry he didn't get his raise. He should be angry at himself and his agent. The Bengals are honoring the contract extension he signed and wanted at the time. His agent should have had performance guarantees. His agent is incompetent.

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: I hate it when accomplished players, who have already made a handsome fortune in their lifetime resort to the "my family needs to be taken care of" line. While he's definitely not making what his stats would reflect, he's made more than 99% people in World will ever make, already. I wish he would just stick to the business line of "I've outplayed my salary, I've earned a raise". It's honest, to the point, and includes no phony heart strings.

Yes, the optics of this situation are horrible. The team bent over backwards to make a WR that's only available 71% of the time the past two seasons very wealthy, and he hasn't even touched 1,000 yards the past two seasons, let alone led the league twice in a very coveted statistical category. This part is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that the Bengals only want to extend for one year and Trey would prefer a 3 year extension. Seems like a fair compromise would be a 2 year extension, giving him 3 more years total with the Bengals. He could retire as a Bengal and be filthy rich for the rest of his lifetime.

I could see this as well, but I think also the guaranteed portion is where they may be far apart.

I have said, give Trey a 5 to 10 million signing extension bonus, that takes his guaranteed money from 15.8 to 20.8- 25.8 million. Then extend him for 2 years, 28 to 30 million in 2026 with 60% guaranteed, high end Trey gets 18 more million guaranteed in 2026 on top of the high end 25.8 million. Last year pay him 32 million based on incentives and no guarantee.

I think they is a fair office, take him to a mimimum guarantted earnings of 43.8 with opportunity if he performs to make an addition 72 million in next 3 years.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(8 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly! Being happy at a situation and knowing it is what it is are not the same thing. Trey's angry he didn't get his raise. He should be angry at himself and his agent. The Bengals are honoring the contract extension he signed and wanted at the time. His agent should have had performance guarantees. His agent is incompetent.

I understand not liking the way the Bengals used to do things, but it is different now. We DID offer Trey a ton of money and he turned it 
down and probably because his oaf of an agent told him to. We paid Joe, Ja'Marr, Tee big damn money to keep them around and we offered
Trey a ton of money as well. This is nothing like it used to be like around here.

You are correct, the only ones for Trey to blame is his agent and himself for not taking the dough in the first place.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(8 hours ago)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I think the FO was unprepared

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Those are 4-5 year deals. Trey's will be 2-3. Much harder to reduce the cap hit as far below the APY there. 

You are missing the point. The point isn't that Chase & Tee come in below their APY in Y1, they do. The point is, it should be lower (by about $11 mil, total). We didn't save any money directly, the payout was the same, but the cap hit was higher. 

This is either incredibly stupid cap management, or, Mikey & Family did not want to clear cap space, because then they would need to spend that $$ on players. FA's or Trey. And now they can plead cap space. They can pocket the rest this way without taking as much criticism.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-cost-themselves-significant-cap-space-questionable-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins-contract-structure

There was every football related incentive for them to maximize cap space on those deals and they chose not to. I believe, in whole or in part so they could be mizerly in FA (Trey and/or FA's). 

Conversely, now, the football reasons make spending it this year more of an option. Especially if they are basically done in FA. Which it looks like to me. 

If so, there is not a real benefit saving cap for this year. I mean, rollover, sure. But if I am choosing where to structure the deal, I'd rather pay $5-10 mil more this year than next at this point. FA is over. 

This is only partially correct. If they did lower the cap hit in 2025, they cap hit goes onto later years. So, no it does not just disappear in 2025.

[wanga]

It’ll get done I’d imagine. Not a fan of contract negotiations through the media though. Glad the FO don’t go that route but it seems to be a players go to usually.
Seemed to take forever and a day for Chase and Higgins to get done but there’s a lot Tees (hehe) to cross and I’s to dot in these things.
Without knowing a single fact other than the Bengals seem to be slow movers in most things the offers of 32M seem fair and guaranteed money is the sticking point again.
Hard to call them cheap when they paid the big 3 truckloads of money recently though.
Hopefully gets put away sooner rather than later and they can work on getting this defence on track.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: I hate it when accomplished players, who have already made a handsome fortune in their lifetime resort to the "my family needs to be taken care of" line. While he's definitely not making what his stats would reflect, he's made more than 99% people in World will ever make, already. I wish he would just stick to the business line of "I've outplayed my salary, I've earned a raise". It's honest, to the point, and includes no phony heart strings.

Yes, the optics of this situation are horrible. The team bent over backwards to make a WR that's only available 71% of the time the past two seasons very wealthy, and he hasn't even touched 1,000 yards the past two seasons, let alone led the league twice in a very coveted statistical category. This part is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing that the Bengals only want to extend for one year and Trey would prefer a 3 year extension. Seems like a fair compromise would be a 2 year extension, giving him 3 more years total with the Bengals. He could retire as a Bengal and be filthy rich for the rest of his lifetime.

My own personal thought was 2 years tops, he wants 4.

I know they'll figure it out, they just need to cut Pratt first lol. That will show that something is getting done on the Bengals' part.

[*bfine32*]

Trey is my favorite Bengal, but I don't know what else we can do. It seems we've given him our best offer and even told him to find a trade partner.

Not really the Bengal's fault if no one wanted to pony up the compensation we wanted.

Trye has 4 choices: play on his current deal, sign the new deal, sit out, or retire.
I hope he signs the new deal or we sweeten it just a bit, but I'm not ready to point the finger solely at the team

[NUGDUKWE]

(8 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sled didn't sound happy about it to me in the post you quoted. How did the Bengals treat Trey poorly again?

They reportedly offered him 32 mil per year and just made Ja'Marr the highest paid non-QB in the NFL and paid Tee big money on top of it.

Just facts.

Not sure we can follow a statement about how much money was rumored to be offered with "just facts". 
Have any rumored money offered turned out to be true when said contract was signed? It doesn't feel like it which makes me skeptical. 

Yes we paid Chase and Tee but we handcuffed ourselves by front loading the contracts. If we aren't the worst front office we are bottom 5 and it's becoming glaring with the QB and WRs we have.

I guess lastly it's not so much we've mistreated Trey as of now although not upping his salary since he's outplayed his contract isn't great. If we tell him it's play with his current contract or sit than that is bad and no other team would do that. But it's beyond Trey we don't treat players very good and we have a history of this so it's nothing new. 

One would just hope that when we finally have an elite QB the front office might try and up they're game but they haven't thus far.

[NUGDUKWE]

(8 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I understand not liking the way the Bengals used to do things, but it is different now. We DID offer Trey a ton of money and he turned it 
down and probably because his oaf of an agent told him to. We paid Joe, Ja'Marr, Tee big damn money to keep them around and we offered
Trey a ton of money as well. This is nothing like it used to be like around here.

You are correct, the only ones for Trey to blame is his agent and himself for not taking the dough in the first place.

No one knows what was offered. That's the complete truth no one knows so let's not assume he turned down money. Tee switched agents and the deal got done. That's not because Tee's original agent was bad. That agent wouldn't take the deal because NO OTHER team in the league would offer the deal the way the Bengals did. He can't take the deal if he's trying to get his client a deal that all other 31 teams would give. Chases agent just took the deal because Tee wanted it. 

The only assumption I would make about Trey is that he's already taken the Bengals very team friendly deals in the past. That would point me to the fact that he's most likely not being unreasonable.

[reuben.ahmed]

(9 hours ago)3wt Wrote: 3) As much as I have complained about Zach, his best work has been to build a culture that makes players want to be here and play for the Bengals.
Part of that culture is fed or starved by disrespecting and frustrating your players (to say nothing of letting the other good ones go).  Why play 
chicken with your own players?  Let's make them feel that everyone is on the same team with winning as the primary goal.   Make them feel 
wanted, respected and psyched to have them playing for a championship team.   

I wish there was a "culture" person spot on the team that he could take while we found a coach