Welcome Shamar Stewart

[Bengalstripes9]

Honestly TJ Watt was a pretty similar prospect, right?

Not much college production, goes around pick 20 in the draft.
The pick is basically a pick banking on his athletic frame eventually being successful.

I think Carl Lawson is a great comparison as well.

Hope to see Stewart stay healthy and be a player that helps the team win.
If he doesn't pan out it will be one in a long line of failed picks.
It is what it is.
But I'd rather see him do well.

[HarleyDog]

We used to complain that the networks would go to commercial when the Bengals picked. Did that happen during this pick? If not, it should have.

[Bengalstripes9]

(Yesterday, 05:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: We used to complain that the networks would go to commercial when the Bengals picked. Did that happen during this pick? If not, it should have.

They were mid explaining what we would do with the pick and the Packer fans broke out 'Sweet Caroline' or something.
It was pretty funny to be honest.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 05:34 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: We used to complain that the networks would go to commercial when the Bengals picked. Did that happen during this pick? If not, it should have.

Went to commercial but came back for the pick so we could hear it live.

I remember earlier in the Draft some of the early picks were shaking hands with this huge dude with dreads in a green suit jacket and I was 
wondering who it was. Little did I know he would be our pick. I like the guy now, crazy fast first step, big, fast and sets the edge great in the 
run game.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:22 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Which is why i said there's rumors the Bengals offered $32M a year....but they arent going to give him $80M upfront of that contract.  Not a chance.  

I'm guessing that's the hang up if they offered him $32M. 

I have addressed this in other threads.

Trey - 2025 guarnantee = 15.8 millionm no guarantee after 2025

Team - 2025 has Trey for 15.8 million guaranteed.

Of course Trey wants both, a lot more money as as important a bigger guarantee. The team has no motivation to redo the current contract.

My guess the offer looks more like this to extend him:

Give Trey a 5 million bonus for 2025, this ups his gurantee to 20.8 million
2026 - Give Trey 28 million, but only 14 million guaranteed, not Trey is guaranteed 34.8 million, but can also make an additional 14 million if he earns it.
2027 - Give Trey 30 million and none guaranteed, but Trey has chance to make additional 30 million so grand total of 64.8 million next 3 years

Alternative Tee could be facing by team if he gets too greedy
15.8 guaranteed in 2025
0 in future
or team could tag him an he makes 24 (22 million in 2025 + increase) million in 2026, but none guaranteed until they tag him leaving himvery vulnerble if he gets injured or has a bad 2025 for any reason

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-releases-franchise-transition-tag-values-for-2025

So if you are Trey and your agent, a decision has to be made, either try and get top dollar and less guarantee or not top dollar and more guarantee, as likely not getting both.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 05:52 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have addressed this in other threads.

Trey - 2025 guarnantee = 15.8 millionm no guarantee after 2025

Team - 2025 has Trey for 15.8 million guaranteed.

Of course Trey wants both, a lot more money as as important a bigger guarantee. The team has no motivation to redo the current contract.

My guess the offer looks more like this to extend him:

Give Trey a 5 million bonus for 2025, this ups his gurantee to 20.8 million
2026 - Give Trey 28 million, but only 14 million guaranteed, not Trey is guaranteed 34.8 million, but can also make an additional 14 million if he earns it.
2027 - Give Trey 30 million and none guaranteed, but Trey has chance to make additional 30 million so grand total of 64.8 million next 3 years

Alternative Tee could be facing by team if he gets too greedy
15.8 guaranteed in 2025
0 in future
or team could tag him an he makes 24 (22 million in 2025 + increase) million in 2026, but none guaranteed until they tag him leaving himvery vulnerble if he gets injured or has a bad 2025 for any reason

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-releases-franchise-transition-tag-values-for-2025

So if you are Trey and your agent, a decision has to be made, either try and get top dollar and less guarantee or not top dollar and more guarantee, as likely not getting both.

I think that your numbers are a bit low for the reigning NFL sack leader. If the Bengals offered $32M/per, then that is a reasonable offer. If Trey and his agent scoffed at that offer, then he should just play his last year and try his luck in the market being yet another year older.

[George Cantstandya]

(Yesterday, 05:34 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Honestly TJ Watt was a pretty similar prospect, right?

Not much college production, goes around pick 20 in the draft.
The pick is basically a pick banking on his athletic frame eventually being successful.

I think Carl Lawson is a great comparison as well.

Hope to see Stewart stay healthy and be a player that helps the team win.
If he doesn't pan out it will be one in a long line of failed picks.
It is what it is.
But I'd rather see him do well.

TJ Watt had 11.5 sacks, 16 TFL, 63 combined tackles (38 solo) his second (last year) in college.  Stewart had 4.5 sacks, 12 TFL, 65 combined tackles (30 solo) in 3 years of college.  I'm not joining the Stewart hate train, but I don't see that as similar.  

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 05:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: NFL QBs are not going to hold the ball with him coming in from one side and Hendrickson coming in from the other. Sack or not, Brad is correct, they will be rushing throws or throwing it away. He's a huge man with great speed, and not a lot of professional QB's are going to want him hitting them.

If Trey is on board and plays like he has the DL will be much improved versus the run and pass rush. I sure hope we get a guard first tonight.So tired of the inability to run the ball when the other team expects us to. This offense soars with elite protection. 

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:34 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Honestly TJ Watt was a pretty similar prospect, right?

Not much college production, goes around pick 20 in the draft.
The pick is basically a pick banking on his athletic frame eventually being successful.

I think Carl Lawson is a great comparison as well.

Hope to see Stewart stay healthy and be a player that helps the team win.
If he doesn't pan out it will be one in a long line of failed picks.
It is what it is.
But I'd rather see him do well.

He had all of his sacks 11.5 in one year at Wisconsin

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 06:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think that your numbers are a bit low for the reigning NFL sack leader. If the Bengals offered $32M/per, then that is a reasonable offer. If Trey and his agent scoffed at that offer, then he should just play his last year and try his luck in the market being yet another year older.

I get it, again you are looking at it from the eyes of Trey. I am looking at it ffrom the eyes of the Bengals who do not have to do anything for our 31 year old sack leader.

I love him and I hope they figure something out, but if I am the Bengals, not way I tear up 2025 contract and give him 32 million in 2025, they would be very stupid on their part. Busines is messy, none of us ever thought we were paid well, we thought we deserved more and then we had to go negitiate and get more.

Same here, they have Trey by the nutz and if. they decide to squeeze, nothing he can do.

Sit out 2025 and lose 15.8 million and be subject to fines.
Sit out some of 2025 and lose almost 1 million per game.

Then, in 2026 Bengals can place tag on him if he does play through his current contract, so he is still not a free agent.

Teams has the cards, Trey and his agent know it, so maybe attempt something versus nothing and regretting it years from now. A 31 year old has to be concerned about guaraneed money, he only has 15.8 million right now.

[Bengalholic]

I guess I'm in the very small minority here, but I really like the pick of Shemar Stewart. I'm much more in line with Micah Parson's view on him than I am the general fan view. I'm excited to see what this kid can do under Golden and Montgomery. There is almost nothing about his weaknesses that can't be fixed and improved with good coaching and hard work on Shemar's part. When you consider the pure freakish talent and physical attributes, and then envision what he could be if he becomes more patient, disciplined and able to finish plays...it's not hard to see why the Bengals would like him.

I get that people had other players they preferred, but I don't get all the shitting on this kid before we even see what he looks like on an NFL field.

[*jason*]

(Yesterday, 04:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are no sure picks in a draft. I'm sure Clowney would be viewed as a sure pick.

He's had an above average to good career, but not wildly successful. He's played 11 years. 9 or 9.5 sacks 4 times. 6 once. 5.5 once. 4.5 once. 3 once. 2 once. 0 twice.

You weren't sure about Julio Jones or Ja'Marr Chase? They're rare in the grand scheme of things, but there are some spam dunk prospects.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 06:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I get it, again you are looking at it from the eyes of Trey. I am looking at it ffrom the eyes of the Bengals who do not have to do anything for our 31 year old sack leader.

I love him and I hope they figure something out, but if I am the Bengals, not way I tear up 2025 contract and give him 32 million in 2025, they would be very stupid on their part. Busines is messy, none of us ever thought we were paid well, we thought we deserved more and then we had to go negitiate and get more.

Same here, they have Trey by the nutz and if. they decide to squeeze, nothing he can do.

Sit out 2025 and lose 15.8 million and be subject to fines.
Sit out some of 2025 and lose almost 1 million per game.

Then, in 2026 Bengals can place tag on him if he does play through his current contract, so he is still not a free agent.

Teams has the cards, Trey and his agent know it, so maybe attempt something versus nothing and regretting it years from now. A 31 year old has to be concerned about guaraneed money, he only has 15.8 million right now.

Sure, they can do any or all of those things, but do they really want to present themselves to the league and fan community in that fashion? I mean Trey took the leap of faith as a free agent to come to the Bengals at a time when they had a terrible reputation for not paying outside talent to come to the Bengals. When they transitioned from Marvin to Zac, they showed a different way of doing things than we were used to seeing. By going full "Mike Brown old school" on Trey would definitely erase a lot of progress that they have made thus far. Trey has done nothing but play better and better since his arrival. The Bengals went all in for the offense this year, making Trey happy is the least that they can do for the defense.

[wanga]

(Yesterday, 07:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I guess I'm in the very small minority here, but I really like the pick of Shemar Stewart. I'm much more in line with Micah Parson's view on him than I am the general fan view. I'm excited to see what this kid can do under Golden and Montgomery. There is almost nothing about his weaknesses that can't be fixed and improved with good coaching and hard work on Shemar's part. When you consider the pure freakish talent and physical attributes, and then envision what he could be if he becomes more patient, disciplined and able to finish plays...it's not hard to see why the Bengals would like him.

I get that people had other players they preferred, but I don't get all the shitting on this kid before we even see what he looks like on an NFL field.

+1  The most negativity I’ve seen on the kid is on here. Most of the reports on him are good that I’ve seen. Mock drafts had him going around this spot. 
One of the commentators said something along the lines of Mike Tomlinson having a saying ‘if these players didn’t need coaching up I’d be out of a job’
Seems fair to let him hit the field and see what he’s got. 

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 07:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I guess I'm in the very small minority here, but I really like the pick of Shemar Stewart. I'm much more in line with Micah Parson's view on him than I am the general fan view. I'm excited to see what this kid can do under Golden and Montgomery. There is almost nothing about his weaknesses that can't be fixed and improved with good coaching and hard work on Shemar's part. When you consider the pure freakish talent and physical attributes, and then envision what he could be if he becomes more patient, disciplined and able to finish plays...it's not hard to see why the Bengals would like him.

I get that people had other players they liked more, but I don't get all the shitting on this kid before we even see what he looks like on an NFL field.

I did not crap on him, but I really did not do my homework on the guy and did not like the pick. I have done some reserach and watch videos and read up on him and I wnet from heck no, to I am getting excited.

We have a brand new DC and DL coach and we just gave them a very expensive toy, a toy with all the bells and whistles at a position group we needed to address due Hubbard retiring and Trey contract situation.

Golden loves athletic edge rushers not just for rushing the passer, but also for blowing up plays in the backfield.

If Glden is very happy, I am very happy after all, he is the one whose job depends on him fixing the defense.

[Frank Booth]

(Yesterday, 07:07 PM)wanga Wrote: +1  The most negativity I’ve seen on the kid is on here. Most of the reports on him are good that I’ve seen. Mock drafts had him going around this spot. 
One of the commentators said something along the lines of Mike Tomlinson having a saying ‘if these players didn’t need coaching up I’d be out of a job’
Seems fair to let him hit the field and see what he’s got. 

another example of people seeing what they want to see. The majority of the most trusted draft people are very skittish on him

[wanga]

(Yesterday, 07:10 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: another example of people seeing what they want to see. The majority of the most trusted draft people are very skittish on him

The most trusted ones you see that you believe Frank?

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 01:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: For all the naysayers, what is the floor for Stewart's production the next 3 years?

Sacks
TFL
PFF or other scores against the pass and the run?

Do he need to overtake Ossai or Murphy to start inn 2025? If so when, day1 or a later date?

I am interested to see the expectations fans cast on him a day after he is picked so we can revisit it later.

College Production comparisons

Shemar Stewart
37 games, 30 solo tackles, 12 TFLs, 4.5 sacks

Trey Hendrickson
40 games, 71 solo tackles, 42 TFLs, 29.5 sacks

Sam Hubbard
40 games, 64 solo tackles, 30 TFLs, 17 sacks

Carlos Dunlap
39 games, 56 solo tackles, 27 TFLs, 19.5…

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) April 25, 2025

 


I saw this earlier and thought it was an interesting comparisons. 
What's his floor? Producing an avg. of 1.5 sacks per year and 11 TFLs over a 3yr span that gives him the lowest TFL production of a drafted DE since 2000. I would say his floor is pretty dang low. I'm more curious what his ceiling is? A mid level player? Is that what we took such a risk for? 
Why didn't we take Jihad if we want to take a risk atleast we have the hope of a game changing playmaker at linebacker. I also think this is the end of Trey i don't see a world we use two 1st rd picks at a position and still pay a player a premium salary at said position. I mean we our the worst organization in the NFL. It's bad enough we apparently plan to force Trey to play out his final year but now we are gonna ask him to play it with the 1st rd pick. No other team in the league does this. Mind numbing how dumb we are. 


But I have seen as far as play time is Murphy will share time with Trey at RDE and he has looked best there while Ossai, Sample and Stewart share LDE. 

[Bengalholic]

(Yesterday, 07:10 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: another example of people seeing what they want to see. The majority of the most trusted draft people are very skittish on him

That goes both ways. 

For instance...one of the most respected guys in the business, Dane Brugler, listed him as the 3rd best edge and 9th best prospect.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 07:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, they can do any or all of those things, but do they really want to present themselves to the league and fan community in that fashion? I mean Trey took the leap of faith as a free agent to come to the Bengals at a time when they had a terrible reputation for not paying outside talent to come to the Bengals. When they transitioned from Marvin to Zac, they showed a different way of doing things than we were used to seeing. By going full "Mike Brown old school" on Trey would definitely erase a lot of progress that they have made thus far. Trey has done nothing but play better and better since his arrival. The Bengals went all in for the offense this year, making Trey happy is the least that they can do for the defense.

I don't think many fans accept or like the business side of the NFL and most are clueless. I mentioned in another thread TJ Watt is also asking for an extension. Maybe team is waiting to see what Steelers offer their 31 year old former sack leader. They should have similar demands.

I hope we do something, but I think we are being unrealistic to expect Bengals to rip up a contract they agrred upon 2 years ago. Blame his agent, nit the Bengals for being good business people.

As far as reputation until recently we rarely cut players or made them take a pay cut. MB was known for being very loyal. I ask you, what did it do for us on the football field or attracting players to come here. FA's will come here if you put a winning team on the field and won't if you don't. They will come if you give them a fair contract, not the rest of the team.

If Trey is demanding 32 million in 2025, if I am Katie I tell the agent when you get serious about an extension call me, but right now we are not close to being on the same page.