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+--- Thread: Notes From Training Camp 2025 (/thread-40710.html)
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 - 07-29-2025
(07-28-2025, 05:10 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: They were 6th in points per play last year. That's a much better metric than ppg or ypg.
And between 3 of the top 6 teams there is a .02 point per play difference. It's negligable.
They are one of the best offenses in the league. Just leave it at that.
Good post. I'd say there were a couple elite offenses last year (Detroit, Baltimore, Buffalo, and Philly). After those 4, a bit of a gap to Washington, us, and Tampa. Burrow is the best QB in that bunch. But we also have the worst OL & running game of the bunch, and the worst in short yardage.
I don't know what the stats say, but that is the way it looked to me.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - pally - 07-29-2025
29 year old former Giant and Cardinals guard Will Hernandez has been cleared to play after a torn ACL in game 5 last season.
Might be worth kicking the tires on him. He is younger than some of the other guard options
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - TecmoBengals - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 09:16 AM)pally Wrote: 29 year old former Giant and Cardinals guard Will Hernandez has been cleared to play after a torn ACL in game 5 last season.
Might be worth kicking the tires on him. He is younger than some of the other guard options
I'm all for the Bengals bringing him in. I was listening to the recent Rapien and Liscow Locked on Bengals, both have been at the practices this week, and they observed the IOL needs, as expected, some work. The OL overall could probably use more guys competing for the reserve spots as well.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - TecmoBengals - 07-29-2025
(07-28-2025, 06:31 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Who TF is Shemur?
He plays for Zack and hopefully excels enough to help our main man, Burrows.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - bengalfan74 - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 09:21 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'm all for the Bengals bringing him in. I was listening to the recent Rapien and Liscow Locked on Bengals, both have been at the practices this week, and they observed the IOL needs, as expected, some work. The OL overall could probably use more guys competing for the reserve spots as well.
For sure, if for nothing else just depth. We don't have much
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - TecmoBengals - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 09:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For sure, if for nothing else just depth. We don't have much
It's going to kill me if we watching Burrow getting drilled because of a weak IOL.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - Whatever - 07-29-2025
(07-28-2025, 06:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I beg to differ.
In order of importance, a sack is better than a hit, a hit is better than a pressure, a pressure is better than no pressure.
Stewart's total pressures by year, according to PFF:
2022 - 14
2023 - 22
2024 - 39
Let's compare those to some of the other premiere DEs in his draft class.
James Pierce Jr (went 26th overall):
2023 - 46
2024 - 55
Donovan Ezeiruaku (went 44th overall):
2022 - 35
2023 - 25
2024 - 60
Mike Green (went 59th overall):
2023 - 27
2024 - 56
Stewart was taken primarily off his athletic ceiling, which is higher than all these other guys, but his production in college was lower than pretty much all the other dudes in discussion with him to be a 1st-2nd round selection.
And while there are guys who do get paid a good amount for a lot of pressures (like Carl Lawson did), it's the high sack guys who really get the recognition and are considered the best of the best.
Regardless though, you want your DEs to both get 7+ sacks and your 3T to get 6+ sacks if you want to consider your DL to have even a decent pass rush.
And if your 1st round DE can't frequently get to 7 sacks, were they worth taking 1st round?
I'm (trying to be) hopeful Stewart can get to at least Hubbard/Michael Johnson level of sack production, but I don't have confidence he'll get there this year or next.
I think he's a few years away from making a big impact as a pass rusher.
I think the numbers for your expectations are off, here.
There were only 43 players total last year that had 7+ sacks, with only 38 of those being edge rushers, by my count. There were also only 7 DT's with 6+ sacks.
I think 2 edges with 7+ sacks, plus a DT(I know you said 3 tech, but I don't think it really matters if the NT gets 6+ sacks for our discussion) that's putting up 6+ sacks, you're in elite territory, not decent. It's important to remember that your rotation DL are going to be chipping in and adding to that sack total, plus stack LB's and DB's are going to get some off the blitz.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - NUGDUKWE - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 09:47 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: It's going to kill me if we watching Burrow getting drilled because of a weak IOL.
For sure. Im already thinking we shouldve done more. If we finish week 1 this year and Burrow gets sacked 7 times like he has in the past and we continue to just sit on our hands ill be irate. Thats probably the real problem with them making limited moves is I know we can see that its a very real problem in training camp and when games start but still just do nothing about it.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - PhilHos - 07-29-2025
(07-28-2025, 05:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Why not? 1 out of every 4 teams were better than us last year in yardage. That's not having to "use language" so much as just being a mathematical reality. Would it have made you feel better if I said one fourth instead of 25%?
C'mon, dude. No one talks like that or says shit like that when making a point using stats. There were only 5 teams that had more total yards than us. I would agree with you that doesn't make our offense elite (hell, even if we were 4th, the fact that our running game was one of the worst in the leagues prevents me from ever saying that it was elite), but just say that. Going "1 out of every 4 teams" is disingenuous; you are downplaying how good the offense was. I get that you disagree with the elite offense argument, but you're argument is akin to someone saying Burrow isn't an elite QB because he was 20th in QB rushing yards.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - TecmoBengals - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 10:12 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: For sure. Im already thinking we shouldve done more. If we finish week 1 this year and Burrow gets sacked 7 times like he has in the past and we continue to just sit on our hands ill be irate. Thats probably the real problem with them making limited moves is I know we can see that its a very real problem in training camp and when games start but still just do nothing about it.
Fingers crossed Fairchild is soaking up knowledge right now and making the adjustments needed to succeed. Let's hope he doesn't have too many rookie moments adjusting to pro ball. Fingers crossed x 10 the other IOL spot is manned by a capable player.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - WeezyBengal - 07-29-2025
(07-28-2025, 06:12 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I beg to differ.
In order of importance, a sack is better than a hit, a hit is better than a pressure, a pressure is better than no pressure.
Stewart's total pressures by year, according to PFF:
2022 - 14
2023 - 22
2024 - 39
Let's compare those to some of the other premiere DEs in his draft class.
James Pierce Jr (went 26th overall):
2023 - 46
2024 - 55
Donovan Ezeiruaku (went 44th overall):
2022 - 35
2023 - 25
2024 - 60
Mike Green (went 59th overall):
2023 - 27
2024 - 56
Stewart was taken primarily off his athletic ceiling, which is higher than all these other guys, but his production in college was lower than pretty much all the other dudes in discussion with him to be a 1st-2nd round selection.
And while there are guys who do get paid a good amount for a lot of pressures (like Carl Lawson did), it's the high sack guys who really get the recognition and are considered the best of the best.
Regardless though, you want your DEs to both get 7+ sacks and your 3T to get 6+ sacks if you want to consider your DL to have even a decent pass rush.
And if your 1st round DE can't frequently get to 7 sacks, were they worth taking 1st round?
I'm (trying to be) hopeful Stewart can get to at least Hubbard/Michael Johnson level of sack production, but I don't have confidence he'll get there this year or next.
I think he's a few years away from making a big impact as a pass rusher.
I need the pressures per snap for better context. It really pisses me off how limited football is with their advanced metrics sometimes.
They did the EXACT same thing with Myles Murphy.
They drafted a really athletic player with limited college production. You think they would have learned their lesson.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - Luvnit2 - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 09:16 AM)pally Wrote: 29 year old former Giant and Cardinals guard Will Hernandez has been cleared to play after a torn ACL in game 5 last season.
Might be worth kicking the tires on him. He is younger than some of the other guard options
Hernandez in my opinion is the only available guard that is an upgrade, I have concerns with Risner. Does anyone have his last couple of years PFF scores? If he really an upgrade or just a name we all know and available?
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - WeezyBengal - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 10:41 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I need the pressures per snap for better context. It really pisses me off how limited football is with their advanced metrics sometimes.
They did the EXACT same thing with Myles Murphy.
They drafted a really athletic player with limited college production. You think they would have learned their lesson.
I did the work myself:
Stewart: .074 pressures per snap (521 snaps)
Mike Green: .077 pressures per snap (719 snaps)
James Pearce .118 pressures per snap (464 snaps)
Donovan Ezeiruaku .078 pressures per snap (766 snaps)
So, it doesnt look AS BAD if you do it by pressures per snap. Especially given the age, upside, and raw athleticism.
Pearce pressures jump out, but he was a liability in run defense and is a pass rush speciality - that's about it.
I just feel like we are just splitting hairs between these guys. Interviews, RAS, college production, the guys make up...it all goes into it. It's a crap shoot. At some point you have to just hope you get lucky and pick the right guy. It'll be fun to look back in 5 years and see if we got it right.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - ERIC1 - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 09:21 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'm all for the Bengals bringing him in. I was listening to the recent Rapien and Liscow Locked on Bengals, both have been at the practices this week, and they observed the IOL needs, as expected, some work. The OL overall could probably use more guys competing for the reserve spots as well.
we were at practice...its slow motion lets not get anyone hurt...aside from burrow completing some oretty passes to various recivers...and burton actually showing up ...you cant determine a darn thing about anything at this point in time..lol@ Rapien and liscow
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - ERIC1 - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 10:48 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Hernandez in my opinion is the only available guard that is an upgrade, I have concerns with Risner. Does anyone have his last couple of years PFF scores? If he really an upgrade or just a name we all know and available?
We have more than enough good players competing for OL
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - ochocincos - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 10:41 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I need the pressures per snap for better context. It really pisses me off how limited football is with their advanced metrics sometimes.
They did the EXACT same thing with Myles Murphy.
They drafted a really athletic player with limited college production. You think they would have learned their lesson.
I can get that (with some math).
Stewart - 39 total pressures/315 pass rush snaps = 12.38% pressure rate
Pearce - 55 total pressures/254 pass rush snaps = 21.65% pressure rate
Ezeiruaku - 60 total pressures/428 pass rush snaps = 14.02% pressure rate
Green - 59 total pressures/354 pass rush snaps = 16.67% pressure rate
Stewart is kinda close to Ezeriuaku, but Ez went 44th overall.
Stewart just hasn't been an overly high pressure guy, but he has the athletic profile to suggest he could be...with the right coaching and mentality.
He doesn't NEED to be a double-digit sack guy, but he does need to have 6-8 a year to be considered worthy of a 1st round selection, IMO. Especially with all the edge talent that was there in the 2nd round.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - ochocincos - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 11:11 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: We have more than enough good players competing for OL
Name them please.
And let us know how you are determining "good" OL.
John Sheeran, a Bengals writer who has been following the team for years (and might have been a former member of this board at one point), had this to say from the first full day of camp where they put on the pads...
Quote:3. Another guard is needed, like right now
What's happening next to Mims is not nearly as hopeful. The battle between Cody Ford and Lucas Patrick at right guard is currently just Ford battling himself. Patrick suffered what is believed to be a right calf injury during practice No. 3 last Friday. He hasn't practiced since and is labeled "day-to-day" by head coach Zac Taylor.
Day-to-day is not the urgency level Cincinnati needs here. The Bengals need to sign another guard today.
Ford vs. Patrick was already not the most optimal competition to be a starting pass-protector for Joe Burrow. An injury excuse is enough of an excuse to get another option on speed dial. Brandon Scherff? Maybe he won't budge if he's not guaranteed a starting gig. Perhaps Will Hernandez? He just announced he's good to go nearly 10 months since suffering a torn ACL. At least one call needs to be made at this point.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - WeezyBengal - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 11:17 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I can get that (with some math).
Stewart - 39 total pressures/315 pass rush snaps = 12.38% pressure rate
Pearce - 55 total pressures/254 pass rush snaps = 21.65% pressure rate
Ezeiruaku - 60 total pressures/428 pass rush snaps = 14.02% pressure rate
Green - 59 total pressures/354 pass rush snaps = 16.67% pressure rate
Stewart is kinda close to Ezeriuaku, but Ez went 44th overall.
Stewart just hasn't been an overly high pressure guy, but he has the athletic profile to suggest he could be...with the right coaching and mentality.
He doesn't NEED to be a double-digit sack guy, but he does need to have 6-8 a year to be considered worthy of a 1st round selection, IMO. Especially with all the edge talent that was there in the 2nd round.
A lot of it has to do with what he was asked to do at AM as well. He was constantly asked to attack the B gap in their scheme. They pretty much said just go attack the inside and wreak as much havoc as possible. That's not going to get you a ton of recorded production, but will help out the team as a whole.
Im really, really starting to sell myself on the pick. I think there is a lot of untapped production the Bengals can get out of him.
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - TecmoBengals - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 11:10 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: we were at practice...its slow motion lets not get anyone hurt...aside from burrow completing some oretty passes to various recivers...and burton actually showing up ...you cant determine a darn thing about anything at this point in time..lol@ Rapien and liscow
A live look in at ERIC1 on his computer.
![[Image: internet-south-park.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/vkXzqi5R41YAAAAM/internet-south-park.gif)
RE: Notes From Training Camp 2025 - Luvnit2 - 07-29-2025
(07-29-2025, 11:11 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: We have more than enough good players competing for OL
I think if Hernandez would upgrade our OL, we should definitely consider it and be foolish to not check him out. We have the cap space and if he pushes a weaker OL to the PS or cut so we can upgrade it makes sense.