(01-18-2017, 04:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: However, we have no Jamal Lewis....our run game is consistently ranked in the 20s.

(01-18-2017, 04:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Which is why the Bengals are 0-7 in the playoffs. duh.
Lewis probably thought he had his new Jamal Lewis in Jeremy Hill after how Hill finished his rookie season. But alas, Hill became more like LenDale White.

(01-18-2017, 05:07 PM)Wyche Wrote:  He better get off his dead ass and shit can the Piano Man if he wants a truly dominant run game then.  Also, if he is concerned with ST so much, he sure ***** up hanging on to Nugent a couple of years too long didn't he?

(01-18-2017, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "Everybody understands the object of the game is to win games. That’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players. It’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players as much as we can. When it’s not there then we have to get a new player."  - Marvin Lewis


This quote, addressing the playoff failures, exemplifies the lack of accountability that is often talked about when it comes to Marvin and the coaching staff, and goes a long way towards explaining why he's 0-7 in the playoffs.


He acknowledges that it's the coaches 'responsibility' to get the players to perform well in the postseason, but then when it doesn't happen, he says they have to get a 'new player'. 


If it's the coaches responsibility and the head coach has failed all 7 times...then it would seem logical that the head coach has failed miserably and should be held accountable. But, Marvin doesn't seem to see himself as part of the problem, and evidently doesn't see the incredible irony in his statement.

(01-18-2017, 02:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So much attention is paid to Dalton and his performance, but he's only played in 4 of 7 games and there's been a plethora of problems in each one. Here's some of the problems...

1.

The pass offense suddenly starts to suck. Kitna, Palmer, Dalton and McCarron. All proved at least capable regular season QBs. All flopped miserably in the playoffs. Dalton has a 57.8 rating on 158 attempts. Non-Dalton QBs combined for a 65.0 rating on 118 attempts. Here's the full set of stats:

Dalton: 88-158-873-1-6
Others: 66-118-621-3-4

Kitna, Dalton (twice) and McCarron all had multiple turnovers. Palmer was close, but recovered his own fumble. All QBs combined for an astoundingly bad 5.41 yards per attempt. In other words, our solid QBs and excellent passing attacks suddenly came to a screeching halt for whatever reason. Despite the struggles, the Bengals have continually stuck with the pass (39.4 attempts per game)

2.

The run game isn't effective enough/the coaches don't stick with it enough. Overall, the numbers don't look abysmal at first glance. Our RBs (I removed QB scrambles that artificially fatten the stats) have gone for 597 yards (85.3 yards per game) on 5.0 yards per carry. If you look at it on a game by game basis, you get a clearer picture:

vs Steelers: 15-59-1 (3.9 ypc)
vs Jets: 21-169-1 (8.0)
@Texans: 16-59-1 (3.7)
@Texans: 12-65-0 (5.4) * a 29 yard long skewed the numbers
vs Chargers: 20-87-0 (4.4)
@Colts: 17-76-1 (4.5)
vs Steelers: 19-82-1 (4.3) * a 38 yard long skewed the numbers

Some of the stat lines are pathetic. You always want to see 100+ yards rushing for your team, and our RBs didn't even get close several times. Whether that's due to ineffectiveness, coaches choosing to abandon the run or some combination of that, is up for debate.

3.

Teams run it down Marv's throat. All 7 teams have combined to average a whopping 162.6 yards rushing per game. That would lead the NFL in almost any year. They've also been efficient while pounding us, averaging 4.7 YPC.

4.

Maybe partially as a result of all the success on the ground, opposing passers have been limited in their attempts (26.9 per game), yet extremely efficient. A combined passer rating of 103.5, completion rate of 68.6%. Peyton Manning type numbers...and that's with matchups against the likes of Sanchez, Yates and Schaub when he was falling off.

5.

We've been outscored 96 to 29 in the 2nd half. Seeing how Marv believes adjustments are "journalistic jargon", I guess that explains why.

6.

We've turned the ball over 17 times (2.4 per game) while only forcing 4 turnovers on defense (0.57 per game). That's a minus 13 differential. Amazingly bad.

7.

Suddenly our vaunted pass rush disappears. Only 9 sacks in 7 games, and 4 of those came in the last game. Before that, the pass rush was non-existent.

8.

Suddenly our excellent pass blocking falls apart. 22 sacks allowed in 7 games. That would average out to 50 sacks across a full season, which would be more than any season since 2008.

______________


We've even had ST issues (think Shayne Graham in the Jets game). I guess my overall point with this thread is that the problems have been team-wide, we've been epically bad in all phases, and this has spanned multiple coordinators, position coaches, QBs and other players. I blame Marvin Lewis...the one constant through all this. Sure, Mikey hasn't helped with his wallet, but that doesn't explain why these teams have all fallen apart in such epic fashion.

(01-18-2017, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "Everybody understands the object of the game is to win games. That’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players. It’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players as much as we can. When it’s not there then we have to get a new player."  - Marvin Lewis


This quote, addressing the playoff failures, exemplifies the lack of accountability that is often talked about when it comes to Marvin and the coaching staff, and goes a long way towards explaining why he's 0-7 in the playoffs.


He acknowledges that it's the coaches 'responsibility' to get the players to perform well in the postseason, but then when it doesn't happen, he says they have to get a 'new player'. 


If it's the coaches responsibility and the head coach has failed all 7 times...then it would seem logical that the head coach has failed miserably and should be held accountable. But, Marvin doesn't seem to see himself as part of the problem, and evidently doesn't see the incredible irony in his statement.

(01-18-2017, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "Everybody understands the object of the game is to win games. That’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players. It’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players as much as we can. When it’s not there then we have to get a new player."  - Marvin Lewis

This quote, addressing the playoff failures, exemplifies the lack of accountability that is often talked about when it comes to Marvin and the coaching staff.

He acknowledges that it's the coaches 'responsibility' to get the players to perform well in the postseason, but then when it doesn't happen, he says they have to get a 'new player'. 

If it's the coaches responsibility and the head coach has failed all 7 times...then it would seem logical that the head coach has failed miserably and should be held accountable. But, Marvin doesn't seem to see himself as very real part of the problem, and evidently doesn't see the incredible irony in his statement.

(01-18-2017, 05:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: "We didn't execute" is another Marvin go-to. It seems contradictory when on one hand he says "our responsibility" to imply the coaches fault, but then say "we didn't execute" to put the blame on the players. Also, I notice Marvin doesn't say "Me" or "I" when talking about who to blame. It's always "we". He will never take the brunt of the blame himself.

(01-18-2017, 06:25 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote:

There it is

People "in general" do what's expected of them. Marvin knows he's not expected to do anything when it gets down to it. That lack of expectations flows thru the entire team and there is no accountability - period.

Losing culture is the way, failure is accepted. Until that fatal flaw is fixed the results will remain the same.

(01-18-2017, 03:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Why is Marv 0-7 in the playoffs?




He sucks?

(01-18-2017, 04:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Can't speak for everyone, but I've never claimed that it's for sure completely rigged.

(01-18-2017, 04:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Can't speak for everyone, but I've never claimed that it's for sure completely rigged.

Just that I have my suspicions that some calls may go the way of marquee teams.

Either way, officiating wouldn't explain why Marv's teams are so awful. It's not like we're putting up 400 yards, with multiple sacks and TO's on defense and losing due to flags. The only game where you could make that argument was the 2nd Steelers game. Most of the other games weren't even close and weren't against "marquee" teams anyway.

(01-18-2017, 03:23 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: In playoff games so far they have been consistent with this.

Just like 2005, I DO think last year would have had a different outcome had Dalton not gone down!  I think they would have secured a bye and would not have been playing Pittsburgh in a WC game.

One thing I've learned being a Bengals fan since 1968 is that, before you celebrate a Bengals victory you have to:

1.  Wait for the clock to reach 00:00 in the 4th quarter.

2.  Make sure they are at least a point ahead.

3.  There are no yellow flags on the field.

(01-18-2017, 03:26 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe if Marvin just stayed home on playoff game day...

Next time we make the playoffs, I'll volunteer to lead a posse to hunt Marvin down and kidnap him for four hours.  Who's with me?

(01-18-2017, 05:25 PM)kevin Wrote: Well, lets first give Coach Lewis the credit for being the first coach since Paul Brown died and Mike Brown took over to have winning seasons. Mike Brown turned a Super Bowl team into the worst team in the NFL.  That Coach Lewis has turned the worst NFL team around to have 7 play-off seasons in 14 years is amazing. Coach Lewis has to go with almost no scouts because Mikey won't pay for them.  2005 we like to think that had Carson Palmer not been injured by Kimo Therapy as Lapham called him with the Bengals, that we would have won that game.  Steelers did go on to win Super Bowl. In 2009 we got beat back to back weeks by the the Jets, so they were just better, and we only won 4 games in 2008 and 2010.  Now 2011 many said we would not win a game, and 2012 O Line injuries started us 3-5. I think it was amazing the young rebuilt team went to back to back play-offs, but they were on the road at Houston. Houston with ex Bengal Joseph took away AJ Green and nobody else stepped up as pass catchers. 2014 we had no chance at Indy with all the injuries and no good receivers. 2015 we again played the Steelers in Cincy without our starting QB who they injured. Still, AJ McCarron hit AJ Green in the end zone for what should have been a play-off win. Burfict intercepting Big Ben should have been end of game. With seconds left, Hill fumbled and Burfict and Pacman gave Steelers 30 free yards in penalties on same play. Big Ben didn't have to win it because we fumbled and made penalties to put Steelers in game winning field goal range. This is the most stupid way to lose a game in Bengals history. I give Coach Lewis credit for being ahead with the back-up QB, but Hill, Burfict and Pacman just blew it. So then there is 2013. We had Chargers playing in Cincy. We were pretty healthy. The Chargers just out played us in our own stadium. There are no excuses. That was a game we should have won but got beat in The Jungle. So 2005, 2011, 2012, 2014 I can see why we lost. 2013, I have no idea how we lost to Chargers in The Jungle. 2015 we had the game won with seconds to go and a few players blew it. I remember thinking finally, we got that no play-off win garbage over with, and then those last seconds our team imploded and just gave them the win. I'll never know why Chargers came into our house in 2013 season and ruled over us. So, I only see 1 of the 7 as upset losses, that being at home in 2013. We had no huge injuries that I remember.

I think it's easy to say Marvin, Marvin, Marvin on Bengals not winning a play-off game since 1990. You can't blame Marvin for 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002. No, the only person here all that time was new owner Mike Brown, replacing Paul Brown who died in 1991. Mike Brown. Certainly you could not expect any coach to turn the worst NFL team around in his first seasons here. I think going to the play-offs 50 % of the time was pretty good for a coach taking over such an awful franchise. Some very key injuries and player suspensions and stars with poor attitudes turned the 2005 team back into losers in 2007, 2008, 2010. Losing Pollack to career ending injury and Thurman to career ending suspensions really hurt as did losing Irons in his first preseason game for his career. The sad story of Henry's ill fated life is he was often suspended more than on the field. TV announcers including John Madden said in most games that Chad/ Ocho was more of a distraction. Even when he went to Patriots Belichick told him he would not put up with that sideshow stuff, and Chad promised not to do it in New England. So Chad could have been more of a team leader. I still say his putting the team down after 2007 and going on every national TV station wanting traded was not a good thing. Then after all the injuries and the 2010 season, Carson demanded traded. I actually think getting rid of Carson, Ocho and TO was a good thing. AJ Green and Dalton came in here and these young guys had the focus more on winning. I liked the new rebuilt 2011 team and was glad to see some of the 2005 team take their attitudes elsewhere. I liked the 5 straight play-off seasons. I still do not know how we lost at home to the Chargers. I think Coach Lewis has did a pretty good job turning the worst team in the NFL into a team that has gone play-offs 50% of the time he has coached here. Other than the Chargers loss, we were the underdogs in the other 6 if you really look at it. I would like to see this team back in 2017, but that depends on Mike Brown and Family greatly. They have a lot of good Bengals players unsigned going into March Free Agency. If we lose those players due to the Brown Family, Coach Lewis has to rebuild yet again.

(01-18-2017, 02:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So much attention is paid to Dalton and his performance, but he's only played in 4 of 7 games and there's been a plethora of problems in each one. Here's some of the problems...

1.

The pass offense suddenly starts to suck. Kitna, Palmer, Dalton and McCarron. All proved at least capable regular season QBs. All flopped miserably in the playoffs. Dalton has a 57.8 rating on 158 attempts. Non-Dalton QBs combined for a 65.0 rating on 118 attempts. Here's the full set of stats:

Dalton: 88-158-873-1-6
Others: 66-118-621-3-4

Kitna, Dalton (twice) and McCarron all had multiple turnovers. Palmer was close, but recovered his own fumble. All QBs combined for an astoundingly bad 5.41 yards per attempt. In other words, our solid QBs and excellent passing attacks suddenly came to a screeching halt for whatever reason. Despite the struggles, the Bengals have continually stuck with the pass (39.4 attempts per game)

2.

The run game isn't effective enough/the coaches don't stick with it enough. Overall, the numbers don't look abysmal at first glance. Our RBs (I removed QB scrambles that artificially fatten the stats) have gone for 597 yards (85.3 yards per game) on 5.0 yards per carry. If you look at it on a game by game basis, you get a clearer picture:

vs Steelers: 15-59-1 (3.9 ypc)
vs Jets: 21-169-1 (8.0)
@Texans: 16-59-1 (3.7)
@Texans: 12-65-0 (5.4) * a 29 yard long skewed the numbers
vs Chargers: 20-87-0 (4.4)
@Colts: 17-76-1 (4.5)
vs Steelers: 19-82-1 (4.3) * a 38 yard long skewed the numbers

Some of the stat lines are pathetic. You always want to see 100+ yards rushing for your team, and our RBs didn't even get close several times. Whether that's due to ineffectiveness, coaches choosing to abandon the run or some combination of that, is up for debate.

3.

Teams run it down Marv's throat. All 7 teams have combined to average a whopping 162.6 yards rushing per game. That would lead the NFL in almost any year. They've also been efficient while pounding us, averaging 4.7 YPC.

4.

Maybe partially as a result of all the success on the ground, opposing passers have been limited in their attempts (26.9 per game), yet extremely efficient. A combined passer rating of 103.5, completion rate of 68.6%. Peyton Manning type numbers...and that's with matchups against the likes of Sanchez, Yates and Schaub when he was falling off.

5.

We've been outscored 96 to 29 in the 2nd half. Seeing how Marv believes adjustments are "journalistic jargon", I guess that explains why.

6.

We've turned the ball over 17 times (2.4 per game) while only forcing 4 turnovers on defense (0.57 per game). That's a minus 13 differential. Amazingly bad.

7.

Suddenly our vaunted pass rush disappears. Only 9 sacks in 7 games, and 4 of those came in the last game. Before that, the pass rush was non-existent.

8.

Suddenly our excellent pass blocking falls apart. 22 sacks allowed in 7 games. That would average out to 50 sacks across a full season, which would be more than any season since 2008.

______________


We've even had ST issues (think Shayne Graham in the Jets game). I guess my overall point with this thread is that the problems have been team-wide, we've been epically bad in all phases, and this has spanned multiple coordinators, position coaches, QBs and other players. I blame Marvin Lewis...the one constant through all this. Sure, Mikey hasn't helped with his wallet, but that doesn't explain why these teams have all fallen apart in such epic fashion.