(07-25-2025, 05:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I haven't gone back to try to watch any games from last year, but for anyone that has, was it more that Iosivas doesn't exhibit those traits on the field, or could it be more around the playcalling for when, where, and how Iosivas is getting the ball?

I like to compare different players at a position, and in this case, it'd be slot WR.
Boyd averaged 11.7 YPR with the Bengals, so he is good to compare to.
We generally consider him a "good" slot guy.
Iosivas had a 13.3 YPR last year, so he might actually be more dynamic than a more standard/typical slot guy, and being in the slot and running those routes might be making it more difficult for him to get more open by having him on shorter routes and having more defenders around him vs being on the outside or better scheming?
For Iosivas to have a 13.3 YPR but only a long of 39 yards last year shows me he's been productive when making receptions and it's not just a few really long receptions skewing his YPR.

EDIT - Two other of the big slot receivers with the Bengals the past couple decades also were in the 11 YPR range - Housh (11.4 YPR) and Sanu (11.8 YPR). I think in general, most slot receivers are just not overly dynamic and it can impact their productivity. Julian Edelman, one of the outside great slot receivers, had 11.0 YPR. So 10-12 YPR is pretty typical for even "good" slot WRs. If Iosivas can have >12, that's pretty good.

(07-25-2025, 06:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yoshi was the #2 WR for a good portion of the year.

That said, yards per catch are really not a huge indicator of quality of play so long as you're above the minimum threshold expected of your position. Ja'Marr Chase only had 0.1 higher than Iosivas last year at 13.4. Meanwhile Burton had 26.3 yards per catch. It's largely just a product of how you are being used.

If you want to actually compare him to a good slot guy....
Boyd had a 3.3% drop rate to Iosivas' 8.2%
Boyd had 4.6 yards after the catch per reception to Iosivas' 1.9
Boyd caught 68.1% of his targets (70.6% in the Burrow era) to Iosivas catching just 59.0%

Iosivas' one strength is he is really good inside the 10. Outside of that he's been a really bad WR who just got way too many offensive snaps. I never say that PFF is gospel, but it matches the eye test and the stat test when it says he was the 126th out of 133 WRs last year.

2. Jermaine Burton had a good day with several catches from Joe Burrow and Jake Browning.
“You can tell he learned a lot from his rookie year,” said WR coach Troy Walters. “On the field, he knows where to line up and what routes to run. So he’s much more comfortable.” pic.twitter.com/vCRzHdpd1V

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) July 25, 2025

4. Former 1st round pick Taven Bryan (#70) and 3rd rounder McTelvin Agim (#72) signed just before camp to compete at DT.
“Those two are guys we have some regard for,” said Duke Tobin. “They have some traits. Hopefully they’ll be able to come in, find a role, and show they belong” pic.twitter.com/iV6enQrnH7

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) July 25, 2025

5. After a disappointing year, Evan McPherson has made all 12 of his FG attempts.
“After my rookie year, I went on a deep dive to figure out how I could be more consistent,” Evan said. “It sent me the other way. This past off-season, I kind of went back to what I grew up doing.” pic.twitter.com/Joehe1WBlT

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) July 25, 2025

(07-25-2025, 06:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: That is fair facts. I suggest one more is needed, TD' per catch Youshi to Boyd. Also, just to remember Boyd was a 2nd round pick and one of the best slot receivers in football. Did't he line up as the #1 at times early in his career versus #2 or slot?

(07-25-2025, 07:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I already said that Yoshi is really good inside the 10.

Also TD per catch isn't exactly a rock solid decider on if someone is good either. Chase averages 1 TD per 8.6 catches. John Ross with the Bengals averaged 1 TD per 5.1 catches. Wes Welker averaged 18.2 catches per TD with the Patriots.

It's also just a confirmation that you aren't good outside of the 10. Despite playing 892 offensive snaps (more than Boyd ever played in the Burrow era), Iosivas had 51 targets outside of the opponent's 10 yard line, and he only caught 29 of them (56.9%). So yes, a player who is only good inside of the 10 will have a better TD-per-catch because he's not producing on 90% of the field where you don't normally get TDs.

(07-25-2025, 07:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I already said that Yoshi is really good inside the 10.

Also TD per catch isn't exactly a rock solid decider on if someone is good either. Chase averages 1 TD per 8.6 catches. John Ross with the Bengals averaged 1 TD per 5.1 catches. Wes Welker averaged 18.2 catches per TD with the Patriots.

It's also just a confirmation that you aren't good outside of the 10. Despite playing 892 offensive snaps (more than Boyd ever played in the Burrow era), Iosivas had 51 targets outside of the opponent's 10 yard line, and he only caught 29 of them (56.9%). So yes, a player who is only good inside of the 10 will have a better TD-per-catch because he's not producing on 90% of the field where you don't normally get TDs.

(07-25-2025, 06:46 PM)pally Wrote: no practice tomorrow
full pads on Monday

(07-25-2025, 07:00 PM)pally Wrote: they moved that sled with one hand each

2. Jermaine Burton had a good day with several catches from Joe Burrow and Jake Browning.
“You can tell he learned a lot from his rookie year,” said WR coach Troy Walters. “On the field, he knows where to line up and what routes to run. So he’s much more comfortable.” pic.twitter.com/vCRzHdpd1V

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) July 25, 2025

 

4. Former 1st round pick Taven Bryan (#70) and 3rd rounder McTelvin Agim (#72) signed just before camp to compete at DT.
“Those two are guys we have some regard for,” said Duke Tobin. “They have some traits. Hopefully they’ll be able to come in, find a role, and show they belong” pic.twitter.com/iV6enQrnH7

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) July 25, 2025

 

a kicker who is thinking misses field goals...those 12 kicks were all in game situations...plenty of other practice kicks

5. After a disappointing year, Evan McPherson has made all 12 of his FG attempts.
“After my rookie year, I went on a deep dive to figure out how I could be more consistent,” Evan said. “It sent me the other way. This past off-season, I kind of went back to what I grew up doing.” pic.twitter.com/Joehe1WBlT

— Dan Hoard (@Dan_Hoard) July 25, 2025

(07-26-2025, 10:11 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm looking forward to seeing if a change in scenery means Bryan gets back to his First Rd. pedigree.

(07-26-2025, 10:27 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I had never really heard of this guy before, but he has some quickness!

(07-25-2025, 07:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I already said that Yoshi is really good inside the 10.

Also TD per catch isn't exactly a rock solid decider on if someone is good either. Chase averages 1 TD per 8.6 catches. John Ross with the Bengals averaged 1 TD per 5.1 catches. Wes Welker averaged 18.2 catches per TD with the Patriots.

It's also just a confirmation that you aren't good outside of the 10. Despite playing 892 offensive snaps (more than Boyd ever played in the Burrow era), Iosivas had 51 targets outside of the opponent's 10 yard line, and he only caught 29 of them (56.9%). So yes, a player who is only good inside of the 10 will have a better TD-per-catch because he's not producing on 90% of the field where you don't normally get TDs.

(07-26-2025, 01:39 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: He had an 80% red zone target to td ratio last year which is very impressive, to me it shows he is very focused inside the red zone with his routes and hands, now needs to expand that focus to the rest of the field

(07-26-2025, 12:05 PM)Nepa Wrote: The Tavern Bryan signing caught me by surprise. He has a lot of starts under his belt and is a former 1st round draft pick in 2018. Defense is developing quite the DL rotation with quality players that can keep everyone fresh and give some depth in case of injury. Add in improved DE performance and this is shaping up well.

(07-25-2025, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yoshi's RAS score is elite, but to me it doesn't seem like it translates to the field all that well. He seems to play slower, has trouble getting seperation, etc. Rarely do you see him beat defenders with his speed or quickness. 

(07-25-2025, 06:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yoshi was the #2 WR for a good portion of the year.

That said, yards per catch are really not a huge indicator of quality of play so long as you're above the minimum threshold expected of your position. Ja'Marr Chase only had 0.1 higher than Iosivas last year at 13.4. Meanwhile Burton had 26.3 yards per catch. It's largely just a product of how you are being used.

If you want to actually compare him to a good slot guy....
Boyd had a 3.3% drop rate to Iosivas' 8.2%
Boyd had 4.6 yards after the catch per reception to Iosivas' 1.9
Boyd caught 68.1% of his targets (70.6% in the Burrow era) to Iosivas catching just 59.0%

Iosivas' one strength is he is really good inside the 10. Outside of that he's been a really bad WR who just got way too many offensive snaps. I never say that PFF is gospel, but it matches the eye test and the stat test when it says he was the 126th out of 133 WRs last year.